Chat — November 9, 2000

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Chat Transcript:
Law School Admissions with Loretta DeLoggio

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:03:26 PM)
First let me welcome our guest, Loretta DeLoggio of the DeLoggio Achievement Program.

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 10:03:34 PM)
Can we ask questions now?

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 10:03:38 PM)
Can I with a simple question?

jimbo (ID=100) (Nov 9, 2000 10:03:48 PM)
(This user has entered Law Admissions) (IP = 207.69.49.174 )

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:03:52 PM)
Loretta is a law school admissions consultant with an in-depth knowledge of the admissions process.

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 10:03:58 PM)
Are law school applications on the rise or decline?

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:04:06 PM)
I also want to welcome two Accepted.com editors, Beverly Schneider and Sonia Michaels.

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:04:32 PM)
The floor is yours. Please ask your questions.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:04:34 PM)
Canada — I don't know anything about the Canadian job market. What did you want to ask about the LSAT?

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 10:05:06 PM)
Well it will take me some time to type out my situation... so carry on until you see my question... thanks

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:05:11 PM)
Also, apps are about level, maybe a 1% per year increase over the last several years.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:05:36 PM)
Someone said Dec. 2; why so late?

Ming (ID=99) (Nov 9, 2000 10:05:46 PM)
If my LSAT score is around 150, is that considered a really poor score for most of the law school?

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:05:47 PM)
If you had to name 3 qualities that law school are looking for — beyond high LSATs and GPAs — what would they be?

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 10:06:08 PM)
I went to a fairly large college and with large classes even upper level and never got to know my profs on a name-level how should I get them to write my letters of rec.?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:06:14 PM)
Ming; how long have you been speaking English? It makes a difference.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:06:32 PM)
Linda — Diversity, personality, and writing.

Ming (ID=99) (Nov 9, 2000 10:06:37 PM)
English is my second language, I would say about 9 years now.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:06:47 PM)
Shan — use teaching assistants.

yogi (ID=89) (Nov 9, 2000 10:06:49 PM)
Ms. DeLoggio, I am an African American male, and I graduated from the Univ. of Miami with a 3.66 gpa with a major in political science and minor in English. My LSAT score was 158. What level of schools should I look at when applying.

MrsFolk (ID=97) (Nov 9, 2000 10:06:55 PM)
I had planned to take the exam in October, but there was a conflict with one my children. December 2 is the next available. Is that a problem that could exclude me from admission?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:07:11 PM)
Yogi — Penn and up ==

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 10:07:22 PM)
But, don't you think TAs carry less weight than renowned professors?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:07:44 PM)
Shan — No. Law schools understand the problems of large Us.

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:08:04 PM)
It makes a much more powerful letter if the writer can write from personal experience.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:08:08 PM)
Mrs. Folk — it will put you at a disadvantage at top schools with 2/1 deadlines, not at others.

yogi (ID=89) (Nov 9, 2000 10:08:22 PM)
Are Michigan and Georgetown possibilities and how many applications would you suggest?

MrsFolk (ID=97) (Nov 9, 2000 10:08:35 PM)
I only have the luxury of applying to one school, and I am OK with their dates.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:08:59 PM)
Yogi — yes, definitely.

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 10:09:04 PM)
I took the Oct LSAT and got a disappointing score of 154, I was doing much better on my Kaplan practice exams, should I take it again this December?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:09:15 PM)
Yogi — I'd apply to any in the top 10 you like

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:09:29 PM)
Mrs. Folk, what school is that?

Ming (ID=99) (Nov 9, 2000 10:09:55 PM)
Sorry Loretta, I didn't get a response from you yet.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:09:58 PM)
Shan, I can't tell what's going on with the LSAT curve; it seems very strange this year;

MrsFolk (ID=97) (Nov 9, 2000 10:10:02 PM)
Mississippi College School of Law. I am the mother of four and distance is a major consideration.

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 10:10:24 PM)
Yes it does seem strange what does that mean for me?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:10:32 PM)
Mrs. Folk, I think a 150 will be fine; what's your gpa?

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 10:10:32 PM)
Basically prior to my writing the LSAT, I had several family tragedies occur, one towards the end of august, where my uncle died, and one 2 days prior to the oct exam, in which 10 of my family member were killed in a car accident. I felt I should proceed with writing the oct exam anyhow since I cannot write the dec one due to a conflict with my university exam period. Now I received my mark and it was lower than what I was scoring in my practice exams.

Other than the LSAT I feel my application is very strong... now what do you think are the likelihood that the schools will consider the mark in the context of my situation... and in the context of my entire application. I have a 3.04 GPA overall, and scored a 3.81 in my final year at the University of Toronto. I also have legal work experience from London, England where I worked for a summer in 2 law firms.

MrsFolk (ID=97) (Nov 9, 2000 10:10:43 PM)
I have a 3.96 GPA.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:10:46 PM)
Hold while I read Canada's query, folks!

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:11:36 PM)
Mrs. Folk, you're solid. Stay calm, write good essays, you'll be fine.

MrsFolk (ID=97) (Nov 9, 2000 10:12:04 PM)
Thank you, that is a relief. So, the delay in the LSAT score shouldn't be a problem?

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:12:09 PM)
Loretta is typing away furiously.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:12:14 PM)
Canada — What tragedy! You might even be criticized for going forward. Have you considered a year off? If not, I'd advise retaking the LSAT in June.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:12:27 PM)
Canada. why a 3.0 with a 3.8 last year?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:13:02 PM)
Mrs. Folk — not at all, Miss, Coll. has a very late deadline, and accepts the Feb. LSAT.

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 10:13:04 PM)
My first year was not too good... and I was thinking about June if I don't get in.

MrsFolk (ID=97) (Nov 9, 2000 10:13:12 PM)
Thank you.

yogi (ID=89) (Nov 9, 2000 10:13:14 PM)
Ms. DeLoggio if a top school accepts you but offers limited aid but a lower school offers considerably more aid, what should you consider before making a decision?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:13:21 PM)
Canada — what schools are you thinking of?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:13:33 PM)
Jimbo and Beverly — no questions?

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 10:13:38 PM)
Loretta, I'm an Asian American male with a 3.52 GPA and 154 LSAT from the Univ. of Michigan. What schools should I be applying to and do you think I should retake the LSAT this December?

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:13:40 PM)
Canada, I once had a client with a very high GPA and great extra-curriculars, who similarly had tragedy strike right before taking the LSAT. She too scored lower than she had on the practice exams. She wrote an addendum explaining the circumstances and was accepted at every school to which she applied. I don't know if it works every time, and I don't remember the exact numbers, but the addendum appeared to help.

jyates (ID=101) (Nov 9, 2000 10:13:46 PM)
(This user has entered Law Admissions) (IP = 132.239.157.38 )

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:14:19 PM)
Shan — what country, when did you come to the US, and what level of education do your parents have?

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 10:14:21 PM)
My top choice was Syracuse but also john Marshall, Albany, McGeorge school of Pacific.

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 10:14:39 PM)
I'm from the US and my parents are both doctors.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:14:48 PM)
Canada — Good choices, but definitely retake,

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 10:15:11 PM)
I have included an addendum in all my applications.

Ming (ID=99) (Nov 9, 2000 10:15:11 PM)
Ms. Deloggio, sorry, I was wondering if you can answer my question. English is my second language and I have been in the states for about 10 years now. And as I was telling you, I think I scored around a 150 on the Oct LSAT. What advice would you give me?

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 10:15:20 PM)
not an international student

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:15:34 PM)
Hold the questions for a second please.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:15:52 PM)
Shan — BU on a long shot, Wisconsin, Iowa Bloomington

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:15:58 PM)
Mrs. Ming, I

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 10:16:17 PM)
I'm not very big on the Midwest schools.

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 10:16:33 PM)
Loretta — so do you think my chances are slim... with my stats for Sept 2001?

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 10:16:46 PM)
Do you think I have a chance at USC, Pepperdine, U of Miami?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:16:47 PM)
If "around a 150" means above, try the same schools I just listed for Shan; if it's below, look at Canada's list.

yogi (ID=89) (Nov 9, 2000 10:16:55 PM)
To Ms. Deloggio or Ms. Abraham, if you are from a lower middle class family, how much financial aid can one reasonably expect... minus loans of course?

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 10:17:19 PM)
see I want to go to better school than that should I retake the LSAT

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:17:30 PM)
Shan — USC no, Pep yes, Miami yes — a chance, note!

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:17:50 PM)
Shan — yes, a higher LSAT is essential.

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 10:18:17 PM)
Is there any substitute?

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:18:21 PM)
Loretta, how are law school reapplicants looked upon?

Ming (ID=99) (Nov 9, 2000 10:18:25 PM)
What's the harm if we take a year off and just work at a law office while trying to retake the LSAT if we do not get in the first try?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:18:30 PM)
Yogi — The Midwest may offer big bucks to an AF/Am student — look for $$ from Mich, Cornell, Duke,

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:18:55 PM)
Yogi, Penn, NYU, Columbia are pure need based — some $$$, mostly loans.

yogi (ID=89) (Nov 9, 2000 10:19:00 PM)
thanks

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:19:22 PM)
Ming, no harm but work where you want — the law job doesn't help.

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 10:19:43 PM)
How do admissions committees look at Asian American students favorably or more competition as with undergrad admissions?

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 10:20:11 PM)
Loretta — so do you think my chances are slim with my current stats?

Ming (ID=99) (Nov 9, 2000 10:20:13 PM)
So the essential thing in getting to law school is still LSAT.. with a 150 LSAT, does our personal statement do much help at this point?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:20:14 PM)
Linda, reapps are liked at a few schools, in a very sporadic fashion — Stanford, Northwestern and Northeastern Detroit Mercy, are a few I know.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:20:37 PM)
Linda — most schools hate repeat reapps — think you can't hear "no."

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:20:58 PM)
Ming, the essays are worth VAST points.

MrsFolk (ID=97) (Nov 9, 2000 10:21:08 PM)
In the personal statement, what kind of things make a student stand apart from the rest?

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:21:33 PM)
Good writing, specifics, insight — not canned clichs.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:21:35 PM)
Ming, your LSAT score opens a door so the law school will look at you; too low means no. Once the door is open, the essays give them a reason to invite you in.

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 10:22:01 PM)
How do law school admission committees look at Asian applicants? do they give them any special considerations?

MrsFolk (ID=97) (Nov 9, 2000 10:22:12 PM)
As far as content, should it be a life story, an explanation of why we feel we are a good candidate, etc?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:22:15 PM)
Mrs. Folk, anything that is actually interesting. I have 10 samples on my web page, and I'm sure Linda has a bunch.

MrsFolk (ID=97) (Nov 9, 2000 10:22:35 PM)
Wonderful, I'll look at those. Thank you.

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:22:37 PM)
Mrs. Folk, I don't think you need to explain why your think you are a good candidate.

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:22:52 PM)
Demonstrate qualities such that they will think you are a good candidate.

jyates (ID=101) (Nov 9, 2000 10:22:59 PM)
Loretta — you say the personal statement is worth a lot. How about even for a low lsat score, say around a 155? I want to go to a top school.

yogi (ID=89) (Nov 9, 2000 10:23:12 PM)
Ms. DeLoggio, I don't want you to get in trouble by answering this, but if you can, are there any top schools which you believe are a good environment for minorities and any in which the atmosphere is strained or unsupportive.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:23:16 PM)
Shan — law schools compare you to the rest of their applicant pool — are you diverse, interesting, unusual? For either coast, Asians offer little diversity; for the middle of the country, they offer substantially more.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:24:03 PM)
Yogi, I've not heard good things about UVA. Berkeley and Texas are in a legal bind, but are trying hard. All the others are cool.

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 10:24:15 PM)
So what tops school in the Midwest should I apply to with a LSAT 154?

yogi (ID=89) (Nov 9, 2000 10:24:19 PM)
Ok, thanks a lot.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:24:32 PM)
Shan, I think I told you — Wisc, Iowa, Bloomington.

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:24:42 PM)
jyates, with a 155 even if you were Ernest Hemingway — barring diversity factors — I don't think your essay would get you in.

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 10:24:49 PM)
Those are not 1st tier though.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:25:16 PM)
Shan, no offense but neither are your numbers.

Ming (ID=99) (Nov 9, 2000 10:25:30 PM)
Sorry Loretta, but does your answer to Shan can also be applied to my case with my LSAT around 150?

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 10:25:32 PM)
None taken.

jyates (ID=101) (Nov 9, 2000 10:25:36 PM)
Linda, I have diversity factors (mexican american, poor family etc).

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:25:57 PM)
Ming, did you see my over or under 150 response? Perhaps we're having trouble communicating.

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:26:08 PM)
What's your GPA and from where?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:26:31 PM)
Yates, 3.53/154?

jyates (ID=101) (Nov 9, 2000 10:26:38 PM)
no

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:26:44 PM)
Then what?

jyates (ID=101) (Nov 9, 2000 10:26:50 PM)
3.21

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 10:27:01 PM)
So, basically, if you don't have the numbers the tops schools wont even bother looking at the rest of your application?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:27:02 PM)
From where, what major, what grade trend?

Ming (ID=99) (Nov 9, 2000 10:27:06 PM)
Sorry Loretta, Just trying to get my question clarified.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:27:33 PM)
Shan they'll look, but they'll see a lot better. So why should they want you instead of a 3.7/165?

jyates (ID=101) (Nov 9, 2000 10:27:52 PM)
From Oklahoma state, math major, increasing grades through junior year, fell senior year due to family crisis

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:27:58 PM)
Ming, if you can tell me an exact number, I can give better advice — also gpa and school.

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 10:28:05 PM)
work experience, diversity, unusual

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:28:37 PM)
Yates, what generation in US, what family occupations and ed?

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 10:29:06 PM)
You tell me, what else can I do to help increase my chances?

Ming (ID=99) (Nov 9, 2000 10:29:11 PM)
I am from UW Madison, GPA 3.4 and I haven't received my LSAT score. But when I took the June test from Princeton, I got a 150. Major in sociology.

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 10:29:12 PM)
Do you know of any schools that look favorably upon East Indians for diversity purposes?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:29:16 PM)
Shan not diverse enough. Diverse is different, you're a pretty typical Asian.

jyates (ID=101) (Nov 9, 2000 10:29:24 PM)
Many generations in US, single parent, mom was a waitress.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:29:53 PM)
Ming, without an LSAT, I can't say a lot. But anywhere above 145 try Bloomington, Wisc, and Iowa.

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:30:01 PM)
Shan, when talking about diversity as a plus, admissions people usually mean underrepresented minorities.

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 10:30:12 PM)
first generation does mean anything

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:30:14 PM)
Asians are well represented in higher education and professional schools.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:30:21 PM)
Canada — same answer as Shan — plenty on both coasts, try the Midwest.

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 10:30:43 PM)
I thought Asians are unde-represented in law schools.

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:30:45 PM)
Shan, I don't think it helps much, especially if English is your mother language and your parents are both professionals.

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:30:57 PM)
You had the advantages that are typical of applicants to professional schools.

Ming (ID=99) (Nov 9, 2000 10:31:25 PM)
What if English is not our first language and parents are not professional, more like middle working class?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:31:49 PM)
Ming, that's why you can apply so high with such a low LSAT score.

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:32:04 PM)
Hold on a second. Loretta is pecking away madly here.

yogi (ID=89) (Nov 9, 2000 10:32:31 PM)
Ms. Deloggio and Ms. Abraham, how many schools do you think I should apply to, considering application fees are high and I'm working on a limited budget?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:32:40 PM)
Asians — here's some basic info. Top schools anywhere, you're numbers need to be at median, no more than a point or two off.

Ming (ID=99) (Nov 9, 2000 10:32:45 PM)
Should we mention what I just described to you anywhere in our application?

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 10:32:45 PM)
Ok I see.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:33:27 PM)
Asians — lower schools — no benefit on the coasts except for poverty; Midwest, cut 5 LSAT point. South doesn't care about Asians much.

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 10:33:31 PM)
There is all this talk about being unusual and different... so what does it take to be different then?

yogi (ID=89) (Nov 9, 2000 10:33:39 PM)
Sorry guys I know you're working hard, take your time.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:33:48 PM)
BU has been taking Asians with lower #s lately, so they're a good long shot.

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:33:49 PM)
Thanks Yogi.

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 10:34:24 PM)
I found that the south doesn't care about Canadians either!

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:34:33 PM)
Canadian is a start. "How you came to be there, from what country  why — political oppression?

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 10:34:58 PM)
I was born here actually.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:35:12 PM)
Canada, the south pays more attention to race than anything else, and mostly to aF/Am, because of historic problems, etc.

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 10:35:16 PM)
Does Michigan, u of Chicago, northwestern count as Midwest school?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:35:44 PM)
So Canada, take a few minutes to give me a bio; I promise not to leave. Who else has a Q?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:36:04 PM)
Shan — no. They count as top national anywhere.

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 10:36:28 PM)
What would you like to know...

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:36:31 PM)
Loretta, we have focused on hardship as distinguishing factors.

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 10:36:37 PM)
anything specific....?

Ming (ID=99) (Nov 9, 2000 10:36:54 PM)
So what's the best advice you would give if we do not get accepted into the law schools? How do we prepare to reapply again?

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:36:58 PM)
Can applicants distinguish themselves through achievement also?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:36:59 PM)
What country, why, when, and why Canada? Parents looking for wealth, come here for school, or escaping the axe?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:37:38 PM)
Ming — Call and ask why; they'll frequently tell you. Retake the LSAT. Nothing else will open a closed door.

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 10:37:42 PM)
Loretta do you think there are any good schools on the coasts i could get into?

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 10:37:45 PM)
Ok... here it goes

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:38:04 PM)
Linda — yes, achievements help, but they have to be pretty good for a top school.

yogi (ID=89) (Nov 9, 2000 10:38:13 PM)
Ms. Abraham, I don't know if you got my last question, but I was wondering how many apps should I send out considering the high cost and the fact I'm working on a budget.

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 10:38:38 PM)
parents moved from India to England... for better life... then from England to America... didn't like it there... went back to England... then came to Canada... about 30 years ago... been here ever since.

goc (ID=102) (Nov 9, 2000 10:38:42 PM)
(This user has entered Law Admissions) (IP = 205.183.210.66 )

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:38:52 PM)
E.g., I had a woman who was accepted to Julliard at 16, had a Ph.D. in music; she got into NW and GT with a 163/3.6

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:39:01 PM)
That depends where you are sending to. If you want to stretch and aim high, you will end up sending out more apps in the hope that you get in somewhere.

jyates (ID=101) (Nov 9, 2000 10:39:27 PM)
Loretta, how about if you apply as a minority (i'm half mexican) but you look white? Would this cause a different decision about your application if the admissions staff meets you at a law open house or law forum.

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:39:30 PM)
If you want to send out fewer apps, then target the schools you are very likely to be admitted too.

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:39:39 PM)
Loretta reminds me to remind you to ask for few waivers.

goc (ID=102) (Nov 9, 2000 10:39:49 PM)
How much weight will be given to a M.S. and 3 year of top 5 consulting experience, Linda?

yogi (ID=89) (Nov 9, 2000 10:40:00 PM)
thanks

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:40:02 PM)
Canada, that makes you not a recent immigrant, not particularly disadvantaged; so your difference has to be personal, not generic diversity.

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:40:04 PM)
goc, I am going to turn that over to Loretta,

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:40:20 PM)
Goc — MS in what?

goc (ID=102) (Nov 9, 2000 10:40:44 PM)
Instructional Systems Design with an emphasis in Performance Systems analysis.

goc (ID=102) (Nov 9, 2000 10:41:19 PM)
Oh yes, I am a black female, too.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:41:28 PM)
Yates, then goc.

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:41:36 PM)
Let's hold the questions a minute.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:42:16 PM)
Yates — You have to "prove" your diversity in your essays and resume — what student groups, activities, etc. They don't go by looks or name, but they do want solid evidence of diversity.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:42:34 PM)
Goc — do I know your Undergrad gpa and LSAT score?

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 10:43:04 PM)
About me... I am 23... B.A. political science and sociology... from University of Toronto... worked a lot during high school... saved money for university... worked in London England for a summer in 2 law firms... one legal aid... and one media and entertainment corporate firm... in the top 10% of my classes at university...

fluent in several languages... very much involved in South Asian Societies at university and in my temple... traveled a lot... great references... more complete list of schools that I have applied to are as follows... Albany, Syracuse, McGeorge, New England, John Marshall, Suffolk, Toledo, pace, New York law school, Mich state and Golden Gate... is that enough info?

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 10:43:45 PM)
My work in London was voluntary.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:43:51 PM)
Canada — by "personal" I mean more about how you think. Have you looked at the ones on my web site? Linda can I give my URL here?

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:44:03 PM)
Yes, please.

goc (ID=102) (Nov 9, 2000 10:44:24 PM)
Yes — 3.3 overall, 150 LSAT — tons of extracurricular activities — to be honest with you, I have applied before (right out of undergrad) and was not as successful as I would have wished — so I went on to grad school, finished and started a consulting career

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 10:44:29 PM)
Actually I wrote about my experiences in the firms... in one firm I was the only visible minority.

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:44:44 PM)
goc, would you retake the LSAT?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:44:52 PM)
www.mindspring.com/~deloggio look for personal statements on the left frame.

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 10:45:00 PM)
The other I worked with a variety of minorities... and helped one client gain immigration in England.

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 10:45:16 PM)
Loretta are there any good schools on the coasts I could get into?

jyates (ID=101) (Nov 9, 2000 10:45:21 PM)
What would it take to show my diversity?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:45:30 PM)
goc — where did you apply? What was the highest you got in? Also LSAT as l

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:45:35 PM)
Linda asks.

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:45:52 PM)
jyates, involvement in Mexican cultural organizations, tutoring Hispanic youth, demonstrating knowledge of Spanish, etc.

Alaynick (ID=103) (Nov 9, 2000 10:45:56 PM)
(This user has entered Law Admissions) (IP = 128.95.12.219 )

goc (ID=102) (Nov 9, 2000 10:46:09 PM)
I did in October — I am waiting for my scores now — It is my understanding that most schools average so unless I knocked it out, I'm afraid my retake impact would be minimal

Alaynick (ID=103) (Nov 9, 2000 10:46:19 PM)
(This user has entered Law Admissions) (IP = 128.95.12.219 )

Alaynick (ID=103) (Nov 9, 2000 10:46:19 PM)
(This user has moved to Law Admissions) (IP = 128.95.12.219 )

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:46:23 PM)
Shan if you mean higher than Pepperdine, maybe Loyola, maybe American, prob, not, except BU, as I've said for the last time!

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:47:00 PM)
BTW, we also have sample law school essays on the site.

goc (ID=102) (Nov 9, 2000 10:47:17 PM)
Loretta — I plan on applying to UNC Chapel Hill, Duke (I am a NC resident), American, Emory,

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:47:23 PM)
Some of which were written by applicants from minority backgrounds.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:47:43 PM)
Goc — no. About 1/3 always average. Some take higher, some take more recent, some look at point spread. Email me when you get the score, or talk to them at a Law Forum — will you be at the LA forum this weekend?

Ming (ID=99) (Nov 9, 2000 10:47:44 PM)
Does the ranking of the school really affect you as a candidate when u apply for a job after u get out of law school?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:47:59 PM)
Canada — yes, you're fine.

jyates (ID=101) (Nov 9, 2000 10:48:09 PM)
I put this into a great personal statement, but can I get into a top school with my gpa and lsat?

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:48:17 PM)
Ming, Yes.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:49:16 PM)
Yates, if you mean your activities are in your personal statement, you've wasted your personal statement. Activities belong on your app and resume.

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 10:49:19 PM)
How does geography affect the job you get after law school? I heard its tougher to get a high paying job in NY and LA as compared to Miami because the market there is saturated?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:49:28 PM)
Canada, list them again please.

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 10:49:39 PM)
How much should one be looking at the starting salaries of graduates coming out of schools at this point... and picking accordingly...?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:49:55 PM)
Shans, yes, but the cost of living offsets salary.

Ming (ID=99) (Nov 9, 2000 10:49:57 PM)
Ms. Deloggio, if we have further questions, can we email you? If yes, what is your email address?

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:50:02 PM)
Canadian, I wouldn't focus exclusively on salary.

jyates (ID=101) (Nov 9, 2000 10:50:18 PM)
No, I put the the diversity factors in my statement (family background, obstacles overcame)

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:50:19 PM)
Ming,

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:50:26 PM)
Yes, Loretta can give her e-mail address.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:50:31 PM)
Ming, and everyone else — of course. deloggio@mindspring.com.

goc (ID=102) (Nov 9, 2000 10:50:38 PM)
Loretta — No. Also, the last time I retook the test was '95. If I had sat for the Dec test, the scores would not even have showed up. I am definitely a "total" experience type applicant versus knock out scores. With the sum of what I've told you, what are some schools you would suggest I apply to? Will my "name brand" work experience help at some schools (for example, it is often said that we have no problem getting into Duke)

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:52:25 PM)
Loretta's typing.

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:52:28 PM)
Hold on a second.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:52:39 PM)
Goc, I hate suggesting scores without an actual LSAT score. 3.3/150+, Duke with 155 +, UNC with 148+

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 10:53:04 PM)
Should one worry about the tier position of a school or not... I am worried that if I go to a lower ranked school I will not make as much money?

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 10:53:04 PM)
I am interested in the dual degree (JD/MBA) programs at some schools should I take the GMAT now or take it during the first year of law school since I heard you have to do law your first year

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:53:18 PM)
Goc, Emory hasn't been good with AF/Am applicants. 2 yrs ago I had a guy in at Harvard, rejected at Emory.

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:54:02 PM)
Canadian, consider the tier, consider the program, consider the starting salary of graduates, but don't decide based exclusively on the rankings.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:54:06 PM)
Canadian, yes, so apply as high up as you have a chance and will be happy, but remember that your 3.3/154? won't go very far.

goc (ID=102) (Nov 9, 2000 10:54:21 PM)
Loretta — Interesting to know — Columbia or NYU? Northwestern or U of Chicago?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:54:54 PM)
Shan, many schools require a dual app at the outset.

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 10:55:06 PM)
Loretta did you see my school list... any feelings based on it?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:55:27 PM)
Goc, not without a 158+_, except maybe NW.

Ming (ID=99) (Nov 9, 2000 10:55:55 PM)
It sounds like so some school would actually favor or disfavor certain ethnic groups?

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 10:56:05 PM)
I heard some don't though like Wayne state and Miami.

yogi (ID=89) (Nov 9, 2000 10:56:19 PM)
Ms. Deloggio, everywhere I read they talk about having safety schools, competitive, and reaches. Could you give me an idea of schools that might match these categories for me.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:56:24 PM)
Goc, I had a 3.4/166 rejected at Chi, Col, NYU two yrs ago, AF/Am and poor.

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:56:55 PM)
If a students wants "to take a year off and work" is there any kind of work experience that will enhance an applicant's chances? Does working for a year of two enhance one's profile?

Ming (ID=99) (Nov 9, 2000 10:57:32 PM)
Why is that? I thought a high LSAT score will get a person into anywhere as long as they fit the scores?

Willy (ID=104) (Nov 9, 2000 10:57:39 PM)
(This user has entered Law Admissions) (IP = 128.95.12.219 )

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:57:48 PM)
Yogi, with a 3.6/158 ? the high grades make Penn? Duke? NW solid, Col/NYU maybes, and the top 3 long shots.

goc (ID=102) (Nov 9, 2000 10:57:56 PM)
Loretta — Last question — so where should I apply — please keep in mind I already have grad school debt and my current salary jumps 20% a year.

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 10:58:01 PM)
Ming, no when you are talking about the top schools, they look for initiative and leadership experience along with high numbers.

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 10:58:02 PM)
Have you seen my school list Loretta?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 10:58:13 PM)
Linda, 1 yr never matters. 2-5 can help a lot.

Ming (ID=99) (Nov 9, 2000 10:58:42 PM)
So the advice on getting a job is?

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 10:58:57 PM)
Does the undergrad school you go to have any affect on applying for example a student from univ of michigan vs. univ. of florida?

goc (ID=102) (Nov 9, 2000 10:59:08 PM)
Loretta — one more stat — I am voluntarily a Diversity Recruiting Lead for my employer.

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 11:00:11 PM)
Canada, I am sorry. could you repeat the school list?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 11:00:39 PM)
Goc, I can't answer schools without a new LSAT score; you don't have one yet, do you?

c (ID=105) (Nov 9, 2000 11:00:58 PM)
(This user has entered Law Admissions) (IP = 205.183.210.66 )

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 11:01:05 PM)
Shan, in general yes, but UM and UF are very equally ranked.

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 11:01:26 PM)
What type of work done during one year off would look impressive to an admissions committee?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 11:01:37 PM)
UM is better than MSU.

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 11:01:43 PM)
The schools are... Albany, Syracuse, Suffolk, New England, McGeorge, John Marshall, Toledo, Pace, New York Law school, Mich State and Golden Gate... What do you think are my best chances?

Ming (ID=99) (Nov 9, 2000 11:01:45 PM)
Sorry, Loretta... I was wondering if you can elaborate on the kinds of jobs we should get ?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 11:01:51 PM)
Shan, none — 1 yr is too little to matter.

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 11:02:05 PM)
even if its law related

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 11:02:11 PM)
Let's hold the questions and let Loretta catch up.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 11:02:12 PM)
Canadian, hold a sec.

c (ID=105) (Nov 9, 2000 11:02:25 PM)
Loretta — I fell off line — I am formely goc — did you have a chance to respond?

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 11:03:09 PM)
c/goc. Loretta responded that she can't recommend schools until you receive your LSAT.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 11:03:31 PM)
Canada — You might be shooting a bit low; can you email me next week when I'm in my office with my data?

c (ID=105) (Nov 9, 2000 11:03:46 PM)
The old score is 150 — let's guess 155 with a retake.

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 11:04:25 PM)
Sure, Loretta... you do remember my LSAT score right?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 11:04:25 PM)
Ming, and other job seekers — every admissions officer says do what you like. 1 yr won't matter for the type of work, but a good rec from the boss will, so do a good job.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 11:04:43 PM)
Canada, 150 ish, 3.0 ish right?

MrsFolk (ID=97) (Nov 9, 2000 11:05:01 PM)
When you have a moment to respond: I have an appointment next week to visit the school I hope to attend. I am meeting with someone from Admissions and I have been given permission to sit in on a class as well. Are there any opportunities that I should take advantage of at this time?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 11:05:31 PM)
Mrs. Folk — what school?

MrsFolk (ID=97) (Nov 9, 2000 11:05:40 PM)
Mississippi College School of Law.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 11:05:55 PM)
Canada — you have to retake, so I'm remembering your practice scores were higher.

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 11:06:24 PM)
Yes my practice scores were higher... do you still think I have a shot or not?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 11:06:40 PM)
Mrs. Folk — no. If you want that one school, tell them so. Why are you visiting?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 11:06:54 PM)
Canada, we should talk — next week, okay?

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 11:06:59 PM)
What is your advice on retaking the LSAT, is it generally a good idea or not?

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 11:07:34 PM)
Ok... I'll email you... My name is Amar by the way from Toronto.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 11:07:37 PM)
Shan, if you had higher scores on practice tests and a reason for a bad score, and Canada did, definitely retake, if your score was in your range, why do you expect a different score?

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 11:08:02 PM)
I have one last question.

MrsFolk (ID=97) (Nov 9, 2000 11:08:04 PM)
I would like to get an idea of the learning environment and the interactions between the students/professors and the interactions between the student themselves.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 11:08:06 PM)
Gotcha amar — thanks.

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 11:08:21 PM)
Go ahead, Canada.

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 11:08:50 PM)
What do you think is more marketable for a corporate lawyer... which is what I want to do... having a JD+MBA or JD+LLM?

Ming (ID=99) (Nov 9, 2000 11:08:52 PM)
Do people eventually max out on their score? I mean, even if they spend more time studying for the LSAT?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 11:08:52 PM)
Mrs. Folk, satisfy yourself about the school don't try to turn it into a sales pitch for yourself — save that for the essays.

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 11:09:08 PM)
JD/MBA

MrsFolk (ID=97) (Nov 9, 2000 11:09:12 PM)
Thank you.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 11:09:36 PM)
Linda — except for tax law, where the LL.M is practically required.

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 11:09:38 PM)
Not even something like a JD+LLM in international business?

yogi (ID=89) (Nov 9, 2000 11:09:53 PM)
Ms. DeLoggio,

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 11:10:10 PM)
Ming — yes, unless they use a different technique — like an athlete. Gotta do something different to get a different result.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 11:10:23 PM)
Yes, yogi?

yogi (ID=89) (Nov 9, 2000 11:10:24 PM)
What are your opinions about Michigan, Duke, Georgetown, and Northwestern?

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 11:10:28 PM)
Will the LLM not give me more leverage in the job market?

yogi (ID=89) (Nov 9, 2000 11:10:54 PM)
Sorry I pushed enter to soon on that first message. :)

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 11:11:00 PM)
Yogi, I like them all, but they're different, size, location, etc.

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 11:11:42 PM)
Canada, no except tax law.

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 11:12:29 PM)
So Loretta I should not pick a school because they have a good concurrent JD+LLM program then right?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 11:12:47 PM)
Canada, right.

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 11:12:56 PM)
ok....thanks

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 11:13:17 PM)
Canada, I think your #s may be low for joint degree programs, they like to save them for the top of the class.

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 11:13:36 PM)
I was thinking to apply for it... after 1st year

jyates (ID=101) (Nov 9, 2000 11:13:40 PM)
For underrepresented minorities looking at the lawschool grids, do we have to look at the numbers for our given gpa and lsat or can we maybe look a block higher in the grids?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 11:13:46 PM)
Canada, you can't always do that.

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 11:14:01 PM)
The schools I have checked said I can.

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 11:14:04 PM)
Let's take three more questions and call it a night.

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 11:14:19 PM)
Anyone who hasn't asked a question yet this evening, this is your chance.

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 11:14:25 PM)
But, you are right some say you can't.

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 11:14:25 PM)
Yeah, there are schools at which you can do that.

yogi (ID=89) (Nov 9, 2000 11:14:26 PM)
Bye, THANKS FOR THE HELP!!!!

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 11:14:26 PM)
can't

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 11:14:43 PM)
yates, you can maybe double the chance of admission for the block you're in, but not look at a higher box.

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 11:14:44 PM)
You're welcome yogi.

Ming (ID=99) (Nov 9, 2000 11:14:48 PM)
Does sending in one's application a month before the deadline place us at a disadvantage?

jyates (ID=101) (Nov 9, 2000 11:14:53 PM)
thanks

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 11:14:59 PM)
Anyways... thanks for your insight... both Loretta and Linda.

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 11:15:00 PM)
Loretta — can we email you anytime if we have any further questions?

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 11:15:12 PM)
You're welcome.

MrsFolk (ID=97) (Nov 9, 2000 11:15:19 PM)
Ms. Deloggio and Ms. Abraham, thank you for your time. You have both been extremely informative. Goodnight.

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 11:15:20 PM)
I will be emailing you both...

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 11:15:33 PM)
Your very welcome. Any more questions?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 11:15:41 PM)
Ming, a month before is the latest that won't hurt, but make sure your file is ready to go — LSAT, transcripts at LSAC, etc. Any delays from there are a problem.

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 11:15:44 PM)
Thank you both for the help.

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 11:15:51 PM)
Don't forget me when I email... My name is Amar... the only Canadian here!

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 11:15:54 PM)
You're welcome. Good luck!

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 11:16:04 PM)
So we can email you both?

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 11:16:04 PM)
amar, I never forget anyone :-)

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 11:16:20 PM)
I hope that's a promise Loretta.

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 11:16:23 PM)
;)

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 11:16:23 PM)
Shan, you can email me, but not to ask again about top schools. :-)

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 11:16:40 PM)
I promise not to I know they are long shots :)

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 11:16:42 PM)
Unless he ups his LSAT ;-)

Linda Abraham (ID=96) (Nov 9, 2000 11:16:54 PM)
For ever the optimist, I am .

Loretta (ID=95) (Nov 9, 2000 11:16:55 PM)
Amar, chill! I promise not to abandon you. You interest me! G'night all!

SoniaM (ID=92) (Nov 9, 2000 11:16:57 PM)
Not the only canadian — the only Torontonian.

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 11:17:01 PM)
We can all dream can't we?

Ming (ID=99) (Nov 9, 2000 11:17:01 PM)
Thanks a lot for all of your time and patience. ^__^

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 11:17:18 PM)
Night

canadian (ID=93) (Nov 9, 2000 11:17:31 PM)
On that note... I am outta here!

Shan (ID=94) (Nov 9, 2000 11:17:33 PM)
Thanks for the help again goodnight.

SoniaM (ID=92) (Nov 9, 2000 11:17:38 PM)
Thanks, Loretta.