MBA Chat — November 11, 1999

MBA Chat — November 11, 1999

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Chat Transcript:
MBA Admissions with Maxx Duffy 

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:02:32 PM)
Should we get started?

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:02:44 PM)
First I want to welcome you all to's MBA admissions chat, the third in a series of MBA admissions chats!

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:02:45 PM)
I'm ready!

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:02:54 PM)
I also want to welcome Maxx Duffy of Maxx Associates, who will co-host the chat with me and share her comprehensive knowledge of MBA admissions. And last but not least, I want to welcome Paul Bodine, one of's editors, who will assist us this evening.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:03:05 PM)
Thanks to everyone for joining.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:03:13 PM)
We encourage dialogue and discussion, but we would like to suggest a structure to make it easier to follow the threads of conversation. So here is the protocol:

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:03:22 PM)
If you would like to ask a question, please type a '?' and then your question. One of us, or another guest, will reply. If one of you wants to comment on the current topic, please jump right in. If you want to start a different topic, please type '?'.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:03:32 PM)
Maxx and I also have a request: We would like to avoid the brief summary of qualifications (or even the long laundry list) followed by the question, "Can I qualify for a particular school." All we will be able to say is "You seem to have a competitive profile" or "Your chances are slim."

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:03:38 PM)
Other than that limitation, this is your chance to ask questions of knowledgeable admissions people. Please fire away!

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:03:58 PM)
Any questions?

lgf (11-Nov-99 9:04:10 PM)
(This user has entered B-School Admissions)

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:04:14 PM)
If not, I have some.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:04:27 PM)
Maxx, frequently clients call me and say they want to go to a top school but have less than top numbers. I always recommend that they look for schools that are very good in their particular field of interest, for example Babson for entrepreneurship or Thunderbird for international. It's tougher when applicants are interested in finance or general management. What are some good schools in these particular niches or others, like health care, marketing, or real estate? I am specifically asking about schools with average GMATs in the low - mid 600s,

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:05:34 PM)
Linda, it depends on obviously exactly what those numbers are.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:06:01 PM)
The majority of programs like Loyola University in Chicago to SD State in California, to Emory, are great for general management.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:06:27 PM)
OK. Let's say the GMAT is between 625 - 650 and the gpa is in the low 3.0s. Work experience is at least three years and solid.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:07:35 PM)
The hot niche programs these days are in biotech. We are finding programs that have other master programs in biotech and combining them with MBA programs, for example USC, which has separate biotech and MBA programs

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:07:47 PM)
Yes I have heard about those programs, specifically USC's .

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:08:32 PM)
This is getting away from the lower ranked schools, but I also heard that Wharton is establishing an e-commerce major.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:08:44 PM)
Some of the great sources are the GMAT's Official Guide, which breaks down specific concentrations.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:09:00 PM)
Do any of our guests have a questions?

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:09:04 PM)
Linda, I believe that to be true.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:09:40 PM)
OK, here is another one:

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:09:45 PM)
How is full-time work experience viewed when the student is simultaneously working part-time on completing his or her BA/BS?

ken (11-Nov-99 9:10:38 PM)
? I have a question about the 'describe yourself to your fellow classmates' essay question

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:10:45 PM)
Linda, it is perceived as full-time experience and builds years accordingly. The part-time BA/BS is fine assuming that the GPA is strong and steady over time.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:11:02 PM)
Ken, that is a fun essay question ;-)

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:11:15 PM)
It's actually pretty tough.

ken (11-Nov-99 9:11:33 PM)
I would like to base the answer to the question on a single event. . .how it evolved, the final outcome, and how it changed me.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:11:33 PM)
Paul, I remember you had a client last year who did an excellent job on it. Do you have a suggestion

Paul Bodine (11-Nov-99 9:11:34 PM)
Do you mean NYU Stern's "use any means you choose" question?

ken (11-Nov-99 9:11:44 PM)
That is the one!

ken (11-Nov-99 9:12:09 PM)
also a good question. . .should I strive to be very unusual in this presentation?

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:12:35 PM)
Strive to be genuine in all questions and distinctiveness will come through.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:12:46 PM)
Ken, this is a great opportunity to really let your classmates know who you are. I have had clients who have drawn pictures, submitted poetry, have done a word collage. Anything that really focuses in on who you are is going to work.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:12:46 PM)
Contrived gimmicks don't work.

Paul Bodine (11-Nov-99 9:12:46 PM)
I haven't encountered anyone who said they would send in a video or a painting. Usually, I suggest a creative format such as a conversation between alumni years after earning the MBA; something creative

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:13:15 PM)
You do not have to be unusual, you have to be genuine.

ken (11-Nov-99 9:13:26 PM)
Paul, I don't think I'm going to draw pictures or sing a song. . .certainly would not get in. . . :-)

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:13:30 PM)
One of my clients once did a great job imaging himself in a student hangout or coffee shop setting up a group project and discussing weekend plans.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:13:53 PM)
He did it as a dialogue.

ken (11-Nov-99 9:14:01 PM)
If the story covers enough aspects of my personality, is it a good approach to define the scope of the essay around that single event?

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:14:19 PM)
Think about a trait that is particularly compelling and how you would choose to reveal it.

Paul Bodine (11-Nov-99 9:14:23 PM)
Injecting a sense of humor is obviously a good idea.

lgf (11-Nov-99 9:14:29 PM)
So - you don't have to say "I am..." and spell out the characteristics that make up your personality, you can tell a story and let them read into your values, etc.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:14:33 PM)
Ken, it is hard to answer in a hypothetical vacuum, but it can work.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:14:38 PM)
Humor is always appreciated by admissions.

lgf (11-Nov-99 9:14:38 PM)
(that was a question)

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:15:01 PM)
lgf, I would stay away from the 'I am this and I am that" essay.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:15:05 PM)
lgf, that is correct. You do not always have to say "I am."

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:15:26 PM)
Try and let a story, incident, or as Maxx said, poem or painting describe you.

Paul Bodine (11-Nov-99 9:15:55 PM)
That essay is a great way to counter stereotypes, such as "salespeople aren't analytical," etc.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:16:02 PM)
Good point.

Alex (11-Nov-99 9:16:13 PM)
(This user has left DigiChat)

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:16:14 PM)
Or engineers can't communicate.

ken (11-Nov-99 9:16:22 PM)
hey. . .I'm an engineer :-)

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:16:26 PM)
Also, think in terms of the rest of the application - what have you not said.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:16:36 PM)
You seem to be communicating quite well :-)

Alex (11-Nov-99 9:16:39 PM)
(This user has entered B-School Admissions)

ken (11-Nov-99 9:17:06 PM)
?another question. . .we're all familiar w/ multi-app to complete applications?

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:17:16 PM)

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:17:21 PM)
Ken - yes, it has its problems.

ken (11-Nov-99 9:17:38 PM)
The NYU application has different essays between the paper and electronic ones. 

ken (11-Nov-99 9:17:58 PM)
I called NYU. They said I could write either and submit either the electronic or paper copy.

Paul Bodine (11-Nov-99 9:18:03 PM)
My instinct is to trust the paper ones more.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:18:07 PM)
That is correct.

ken (11-Nov-99 9:18:12 PM)
Does it look foolish to submit an essay from the paper app w/ an electronic app?

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:18:22 PM)

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:18:32 PM)
It is one or the other.

ken (11-Nov-99 9:18:46 PM)
Even if NYU said they are aware of the problem and allows any combination?

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:19:18 PM)
Technically, they will accept it. However, if you think in terms of how admissions reads, they are used to one or the other, not the combination.

Paul Bodine (11-Nov-99 9:19:27 PM)
Are cover letters with the apps a good idea or only when the school--like MIT--asks for it?

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:19:34 PM)
It will stop them in the reading process, which is something you do not want them to do.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:19:47 PM)
Paul --only when the school asks for it.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:20:16 PM)
Cover letters usually are only scanned unless asked for.

Paul Bodine (11-Nov-99 9:20:29 PM)
Should applicants assume that the reader has already reviewed the app for things like GMAT scores BEFORE they read the essays?

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:20:42 PM)

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:20:59 PM)
Could you go over the order in which most admissions staffs look at an application?

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:21:04 PM)
Applications are read as follows: Academics, then GMAT, then application, then recommendations.

db (11-Nov-99 9:21:11 PM)
(This user has entered B-School Admissions)

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:21:39 PM)
So by the time they get to the essays they have read everything except the recommendations, right?

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:21:48 PM)

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:22:04 PM)
Applications are like the building of a snowball of information on applicant.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:22:25 PM)
That is why you want to offer new and different information as you go along.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:22:50 PM)
Keep the AdCom reader involved.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:22:51 PM)
Aiming as you said in Strategies for Success for the 3-D applicant, right?

lgf (11-Nov-99 9:23:24 PM)
? I have read the prior chat transcripts - I remember you discussing aspects of your professional experience, community service, values, etc. that one should attempt to include somewhere in the apps - could you summarize what might make an application feel 'complete'/'Balanced' (this might be what LAbraham just eluded to)

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:23:30 PM)
Yes. The 3-D image of an applicant: who are you intellectually, professionally and personally.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:24:19 PM)
The biographical information cites the community service, professional experience. Values are discussed in essays.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:25:00 PM)
Balance comes in the form of giving admissions a COMPLETE view of who you are in a 3-D perspective.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:25:45 PM)
Any other questions?

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:25:47 PM)
As long as it is all there --- no stone unturned re: your background --- then it is balanced. Dare I say, over balanced? !

ken (11-Nov-99 9:25:54 PM)
?Question about NYU's 'imagine you are beginning a new business venture. . .write the exec. summary to present to potential investors. . .

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:26:01 PM)
Have you ever seen one that is over-balanced?

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:26:23 PM)
What is your question on that essay?

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:26:25 PM)
No -- it all counts. :)

Paul Bodine (11-Nov-99 9:26:28 PM)
If you are repeating experiences or stories across your essays, you are probably not going to come across as being as "balanced" as someone who keeps bringing in new angles.

ken (11-Nov-99 9:26:29 PM)
Should the essay spend more time on the idea (max 500 words total) itself of attempt to include much of the information typical of most business venture exec summaries.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:27:08 PM)
Ken - it should follow the standard business exec. summary.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:27:20 PM)
There are lots of summary examples on web and in bookstores.

Paul Bodine (11-Nov-99 9:27:38 PM)
Have you heard of schools hiring freelance readers to read the essays--i.e., people not part of the admissions staff??

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:28:16 PM)
Yes -- but I am not sure that it is real. I do know that small staffs sometimes use students or faculty in a pinch.

ken (11-Nov-99 9:28:22 PM)
so the purpose is more to characterize your familiarity w/ the business details surrounding such a plan and less around the idea itself?

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:28:54 PM)
I think if you come up with an intriguing idea it will help you seem like a creative, intelligent person.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:29:02 PM)
Ken - yes. The idea must be stated clearly, succinctly, but it also must cite the other elements in exec. summary.

ken (11-Nov-99 9:29:11 PM)
thanks maxx :-)

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:29:22 PM)
You're welcome!

lgf (11-Nov-99 9:29:42 PM)
Seems like it's hard to get in any 'insight' about yourself in this one.. another aspect, if you cite statistics, do they have to be real?

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:30:36 PM)
lgf - if you have an idea and have given thought to statistics, then they are somewhat "real". If not, then do homework in industry and come up with reasonable numbers.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:31:01 PM)
Well if you have entrepreneurial ambitions, like many MBA applicants, presumably you will reflect those ambitions in your essay and also values.

lgf (11-Nov-99 9:31:16 PM)

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:31:22 PM)
You will also reveal a certain basic awareness of business.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:31:50 PM)
lgf - insight comes from multiple areas in an application -- not just one essay.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:31:57 PM)
Any other questions?

ken (11-Nov-99 9:32:11 PM)

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:32:18 PM)
Please go ahead.

ken (11-Nov-99 9:32:29 PM)
can you speak of the best round to apply based on scores, grades, etc. . .

ken (11-Nov-99 9:32:52 PM)
More specifics available if you would like.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:32:56 PM)
Applicants with high GPAs and high GMATs traditionally apply in the first round.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:33:16 PM)
The applicant pool evens out some in second round.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:33:33 PM)
If you meet school's numbers, then 1st round is fine.

ken (11-Nov-99 9:33:41 PM)
3.80 engineering / 690 gmat. . .does this qualify in the 'high' category?

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:33:47 PM)
If you have lower numbers, you might wait for second round.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:33:54 PM)
Ken - yes.

ken (11-Nov-99 9:33:58 PM)
will schools typically defer you to later rounds if they are not sure?

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:34:05 PM)
Isn't there also a risk if applying second round that the "quota" for your professional profile will be filled in the first round?

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:34:11 PM)
Some will; some will not. They will let you know.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:34:18 PM)
This actually happened to a client of mine with high numbers.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:34:36 PM)
Linda - yes, that is the risk of the 2nd round.

db (11-Nov-99 9:34:47 PM)
? Being an investment banking analyst, is it an excuse for one not to have numerous extracurricular activities? i.e. do I need to explain the hectic lifestyle or is it generally well known? Thanks

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:35:08 PM)
db - no. Leaders do not give excuses.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:35:42 PM)
db - AdComs believe that one should be involved no matter what the hours.

Paul Bodine (11-Nov-99 9:35:54 PM)
Is it true that giving financial gifts regularly to several charities compensates to some extent for someone who has minimal community involvement because, say, they have to travel a lot?

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:36:03 PM)
If you look at CEOs of major corps. they are involved despite long hours.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:36:22 PM)
Also competitively, there are IB's involved in extracurriculars so you really are better off not making excuses or drawing attention to your lack of extracurriculars.

Alex (11-Nov-99 9:36:39 PM)
(This user has left DigiChat)

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:36:41 PM)
No -- it does not compensate. However, the gifts reveal the personal concerns of the applicant.

Alex (11-Nov-99 9:36:58 PM)
(This user has entered B-School Admissions)

db (11-Nov-99 9:37:03 PM)
? is it ok to mention $$ gifts?

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:37:21 PM)
If someone travels a lot, I recommend that they find something in the city to which they find themselves on a regular basis.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:37:53 PM)
db- it really does not need to be mentioned, though the organization might be.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:38:02 PM)
You can also commit to a significant role in a one-time or annual event.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:38:31 PM)
Today, there are lots of ways to stay involved -- even via computer!

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:39:04 PM)
Also, remember that community service can take different forms.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:39:15 PM)
It can be involvement in a church or alumni group.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:39:17 PM)
I have clients that offer assistance as they travel simply by giving organizations commentaries.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:39:33 PM)
It can even be leadership roles in professional organizations.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:39:50 PM)
Or a committee at work that is not part of job.

db (11-Nov-99 9:40:02 PM)
? can a respected / wealthy alum influence Adcoms decisions if they are simply friend of the family etc..?

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:40:03 PM)
It can be serving on the Board of Directors of a charitable organization.

Paul Bodine (11-Nov-99 9:40:07 PM)
Raising one's children, however, is not a community activity then, correct? (For example, a single mother)

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:40:26 PM)
Paul, it certainly is a time-consuming passion.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:40:36 PM)
db - no. Most AdComs are protected from such circumstances.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:40:50 PM)
When done correctly, it can even improve the world... but I am not sure it is community service.

lgf (11-Nov-99 9:41:43 PM)
? Similar to db's question - I reviewed a friends essays recently - a question from Kellogg asked about being an AdCom and reviewing your own file. In this question, he included the name of a friend that was currently enrolled in the program. Is this 'name dropping' acceptable?

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:41:53 PM)
Paul, seriously, the single mother could talk about involvement in the PTA or scout troops or some child related activity.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:42:15 PM)
lgf - name dropping is usually ignored by admissions.

ken (11-Nov-99 9:42:20 PM)
?several schools ask that you attach a copy of a recent pay stub to validate financial information that's part of the application. . .I travel and and suffer all sorts of strange tax issues. . .my paycheck, w/o a PhD in accounting, looks like complete craziness. . .do I qualify it w/ an explanation? If so, where do I put that information?

Paul Bodine (11-Nov-99 9:42:37 PM)
I see your point--parenthood usually involves community involvement by definition.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:42:46 PM)
lgf, but talking to current students is a good way to learn about the school and shows interest.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:42:58 PM)
ken - yes, you can include a statement.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:43:29 PM)
ken - include statement with attached copy.

ken (11-Nov-99 9:43:45 PM)
thanks maxx :-)

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:43:58 PM)
Additional questions?

ken (11-Nov-99 9:44:08 PM)
? Dartmouth application has a section where you specify your industry. . .

ken (11-Nov-99 9:44:32 PM)
I am in the consulting industry and could fit reasonably into several consulting categories. . .any thoughts on how to choose?

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:44:50 PM)
Ken, choose one of the less common ones.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:44:58 PM)
ken - your strongest area of expertise.

ken (11-Nov-99 9:45:02 PM)
choices that might fit reasonably for me: investment, management, technology. . .

db (11-Nov-99 9:45:17 PM)
? do Adcoms ever check references e.g.. for a certain activity mentioned listed with a contact name?

ken (11-Nov-99 9:45:20 PM)
btw, as an engineer, is technology the best or worst choice?

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:45:32 PM)
Ken, then I agree with Maxx since they are all common among MBA applicants.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:45:45 PM)
db- yes. That is why some apps. ask for contact information. It is done randomly, though.

Paul Bodine (11-Nov-99 9:46:14 PM)
Is it true that Adcoms are not impressed by already very successful applicants who want an MBA as a "notch on their belt"--i.e., they don't really NEED an MBA to advance their career?

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:46:52 PM)
Paul - yes. Your reasons for seeking an MBA must be real - for knowledge and growth, not another notch or name.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:47:23 PM)
Maxx, many applicants, particularly consultants and those in IB, need the MBA as a credential.

ken (11-Nov-99 9:48:05 PM)
?silly question about the interview. . .shave the goatee or not?

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:48:11 PM)
Linda - yes, that is true. But there is still much to learn re: business disciplines -- even in finance!

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:48:34 PM)
ken - do not need to shave it assuming it is clean and tidy!

ken (11-Nov-99 9:48:54 PM)
of course. what kind of applicant do you think I am? :-) Thanks!

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:49:03 PM)
Aren't you the engineer?

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:49:04 PM)
Linda -- think in terms of business issues that an applicant wants to learn.

Paul Bodine (11-Nov-99 9:49:07 PM)
Lose the beret though :-)

ken (11-Nov-99 9:49:18 PM)
yes I am. Mechanical. . .

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:49:25 PM)
Oh oh.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:49:36 PM)
What about the pocket-protector?

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:49:56 PM)
Kill the pocket protector!

ken (11-Nov-99 9:49:58 PM)
I'll hang my beret on my slide rule.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:50:26 PM)
Any other questions?

ken (11-Nov-99 9:50:41 PM)
?yes. . .

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:50:47 PM)

ken (11-Nov-99 9:51:01 PM)
in consulting, I'm never home. . .so I still technically live 'at home'. . .

ken (11-Nov-99 9:51:08 PM)
any reason I might want to explain this?

ken (11-Nov-99 9:51:18 PM)
qualify: always 'out of town'. . .

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:51:32 PM)
ken -not really necessary. Personal choice.

ken (11-Nov-99 9:51:33 PM)
qualify 2: at home= w/ my parents . . .

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:51:52 PM)
The food is good, the laundry gets done. Why not?

db (11-Nov-99 9:52:08 PM)
(This user has left DigiChat)

Paul Bodine (11-Nov-99 9:52:10 PM)
It might even be a positive if you were, for example, taking care of one of them (some past clients).

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:52:23 PM)
Paul - great point!

ken (11-Nov-99 9:52:38 PM)
that is an excellent point. . .hadn't thought of that. thanks very much!

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:52:52 PM)
ken - it has to be true, though!

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:53:04 PM)
I think Paul is raising an interesting point about "community service."

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:53:17 PM)
Maybe it should just be thought of as "service" to something other than oneself.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:53:34 PM)
Linda - also great observation.

Paul Bodine (11-Nov-99 9:53:40 PM)
I had a client who left a prestigious tech job for a somewhat less prestigious job so he could help his mom through her cancer battle (she won)

Paul Bodine (11-Nov-99 9:54:05 PM)
I.e., he moved nearer home

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:54:17 PM)
That obviously shows commitment, and he doesn't say what a loyal, faithful son he is. He simply demonstrate it.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:54:19 PM)
Paul -- wonderful example of values.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:54:59 PM)

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:55:20 PM)
Just to go back again to the example Paul just gave for a moment.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:55:36 PM)
It is a wonderful example of a "show me" story.

Paul Bodine (11-Nov-99 9:55:59 PM)
Yes, no "BS" required--just describe it.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:56:02 PM)
An incident that says an awful lot about the applicant without him or her having to go and say "I am this and I am that."

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:56:16 PM)
What I like about the essay is the multiple elements that it says about the applicant.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:56:38 PM)
from professional capabilities to personal feelings/values.

lgf (11-Nov-99 9:56:38 PM)
Perfect. I like that approach a lot.

Alex (11-Nov-99 9:56:58 PM)
(This user has left DigiChat)

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:57:04 PM)
It is much more comfortable that the "I am wonderful." approach.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:57:16 PM)
Never a good idea.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:57:27 PM)
Rather nauseating actually.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:57:35 PM)

ken (11-Nov-99 9:57:54 PM)
?third question for Tuck's application . . .describe your interests outside work/school. . .should this take a more traditional approach or should it take the creative approach as many others?

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:58:02 PM)
Well hopefully none of our guests had to care for their mothers who were battling cancer.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:58:23 PM)
ken - either can work. But, whatever approach, make it really you.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:58:39 PM)
This should be a fun question to answer.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:58:48 PM)
It let's you talk about what you enjoy doing.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:58:56 PM)
If traditional - allow feelings to enter - why it is important to you.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 9:58:58 PM)
As Maxx said, make sure it really is you and be genuine.

Paul Bodine (11-Nov-99 9:59:09 PM)
Are international students who have never worked in the U.S. always at a disadvantage vis--vis those working in the U.S.? I would think their experiences could actually be more unusual.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:59:39 PM)
Paul - they are not at a disadvantage. If anything, they might have an edge.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 9:59:55 PM)
Paul - especially in light of global issues.

Paul Bodine (11-Nov-99 10:00:12 PM)
I see what you mean.

lgf (11-Nov-99 10:00:15 PM)
? I've heard that you have to sometimes be overly confident within your apps, with the assumption that they will tone it down some. Is this true? It's rather uncomfortable ...

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 10:00:48 PM)
Confidence is good. Pride in your accomplishments is good. Arrogance is not.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 10:00:50 PM)
lgf- confidence is a state of being, not one that is forced or discussed.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 10:00:54 PM)
Pomposity is not.

Paul Bodine (11-Nov-99 10:01:04 PM)
Overly confident = dynamic (good) = arrogant (no)

fangdi (11-Nov-99 10:01:10 PM)
(This user has entered B-School Admissions)

Maxx (11-Nov-99 10:01:10 PM)
lgf - adcoms should sense it from what you are saying.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 10:01:20 PM)
Reflect genuine pride.

lgf (11-Nov-99 10:01:36 PM)
good. I can do that. :-)

ken (11-Nov-99 10:02:04 PM)
? how important is alum involvement w/ your undergrad school?

Maxx (11-Nov-99 10:02:29 PM)
ken - it is not necessary to have it, but if you do, then certainly cite it.

lgf (11-Nov-99 10:03:06 PM)
? and does alumni recruiting through your current employer count?

Paul Bodine (11-Nov-99 10:03:07 PM)
I just meant that if "overly confident" means arrogant it's not a good idea, but if it means showing yourself to be dynamic "overly confident" is good.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 10:03:08 PM)
ken - everything counts re: activities.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 10:03:19 PM)
lgf - absolutely.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 10:03:34 PM)
Paul - I agree.

fangdi (11-Nov-99 10:04:08 PM)
Without working experience, can I get accepted by top business school?

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 10:04:26 PM)
Highly unlikely.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 10:04:32 PM)
fangdi - most top programs want experience.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 10:04:58 PM)
Any other questions?

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 10:05:33 PM)
Last call.

ken (11-Nov-99 10:05:40 PM)
? Yes. Not sure if I should list actual client names on my resume or 'Large . . .company'. . .does it matter?

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 10:05:40 PM)
Thank you again all for participating this evening. Special thanks to Maxx Duffy for her invaluable insights and to Paul Bodine for his assistance.

ken (11-Nov-99 10:05:42 PM)

ken (11-Nov-99 10:05:45 PM)
sorry about that.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 10:05:48 PM)
OK. Go ahead.

Paul Bodine (11-Nov-99 10:06:09 PM)
I vote for actual names

fangdi (11-Nov-99 10:06:14 PM)
Thank you. I got a question

ken (11-Nov-99 10:06:15 PM)
had a weird problem. Does it matter if my resume does not include actual client names and instead uses 'large travel/transportation company' type stuff?

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 10:06:31 PM)
If you have confidentiality issues, that is OK.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 10:06:33 PM)
ken - actual names is stronger.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 10:06:37 PM)
Otherwise, I would use names.

Paul Bodine (11-Nov-99 10:06:55 PM)
Fangdi, go ahead

fangdi (11-Nov-99 10:07:38 PM)
Do you think the top business schools prefer people from the large company?

ken (11-Nov-99 10:08:04 PM)
what is 'the' large company?

Maxx (11-Nov-99 10:08:12 PM)
fangdi - adcoms look at all experiences. It is the quality/level of experience that counts.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 10:08:42 PM)
Any more questions?

ken (11-Nov-99 10:08:59 PM)
think I'm all out. you have been extremely helpful!!!

lgf (11-Nov-99 10:09:04 PM)
Thank you!

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 10:09:06 PM)

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 10:09:10 PM)
You're welcome.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 10:09:19 PM)
You're welcome!

fangdi (11-Nov-99 10:09:19 PM)
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LAbraham (11-Nov-99 10:09:22 PM)
Thanks again to Maxx and Paul and to you for coming and sharing your concerns.

Paul Bodine (11-Nov-99 10:09:22 PM)
Good luck.

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 10:09:31 PM)
I want to mention that ( and Maxx Associates ( have been extremely busy. We are booking up. If you are interested in our services, please contact us well before your deadlines.

lgf (11-Nov-99 10:09:40 PM)
(This user has left DigiChat)

ken (11-Nov-99 10:09:41 PM)
(This user has left DigiChat)

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 10:09:51 PM)
Thanks again to both of you.

Maxx (11-Nov-99 10:09:56 PM)
Bye, guys!

Paul Bodine (11-Nov-99 10:09:59 PM)
Your welcome

Paul Bodine (11-Nov-99 10:10:01 PM)
(This user has left DigiChat)

Maxx (11-Nov-99 10:10:02 PM)
(This user has left DigiChat)

LAbraham (11-Nov-99 10:10:07 PM)
Bye. Thanks for coming. (This user has left DigiChat)