2009 IMD MBA Admissions Chat with Janet Shaner
2009 IMD MBA Admissions Chat with Janet Shaner
Linda Abraham (May 14, 2008 1:01:13 PM)
First I want to welcome you all to Accepted.com’s International MBA Admissions Chat for IMD. I am Linda Abraham, head of Accepted, and I will moderate the chat today.
I also want to welcome Janet Shaner, Director of MBA Marketing, and Tomas Zahradnik, member of the IMD class of 2008. Tomas, while I deal with a few logistics, can you please tell us a little about yourself. Where are you from? What did you do before arriving at IMD? What do you intend to do after earning your IMD MBA?
Thanks to everyone for joining.
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:02:20 PM)
Linda Abraham (May 14, 2008 1:02:26 PM)
It’s your turn now. Please post your questions.
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:02:59 PM)
I come from Slovakia, from the banking industry. Prior to IMD I did work for Accenture for about 4 years, engaging in the project in financial services, mainly for retail banks.
Linda Abraham (May 14, 2008 1:04:12 PM)
Janet, what's new for the entering class of ’09 at IMD?
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 1:04:31 PM)
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:04:33 PM)
Then I accepted a managerial position with one of the largest Slovak banks. After 2 years in the position, which I enjoyed very much I decided to take another challenge.
That is how I ended up here at IMD.
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 1:05:23 PM)
We're really happy with our current program structure, so 2009 will see something similar to 2008. Except for the Discovery Expedition of course, we go to a new location every year!
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:05:52 PM)
My education background is business administration.
Linda Abraham (May 14, 2008 1:06:11 PM)
Janet, do you know where the Discovery Expedition is going for the 2009 class?
sash (May 14, 2008 1:06:31 PM)
Janet and Tomas: From your experience, how is an EMBA perceived in the job market as compared to the regular MBA (assuming they are from the same school)? Are they considered at par in terms of quality of education and standing?
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 1:06:39 PM)
Linda, It's always a surprise . . for the first day of the 2009 class!
Linda Abraham (May 14, 2008 1:06:57 PM)
Tomas, what do you plan to do after you earn your MBA?
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:07:03 PM)
Linda, as far as my future career plans...it is not crystal clear yet, as with most of us here in the program. I realize that my experience would suggest staying in banking.
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 1:08:00 PM)
Sash, Yes I believe that they are considered at par. Companies recognize that with an MBA, you did it full time, and with an EMBA, while you were working. The education is similar and at least at IMD, companies know that the challenge, intensity and learning experience are very valuable and a great opportunity for growth.
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:08:09 PM)
Though I feel that this year will give me a unique opportunity to change it.
Priya (May 14, 2008 1:08:26 PM)
Janet, can you tell me whether IMD grads have gotten into Corporate Strategy (not Consulting) roles post-MBA, without prior any Consulting / Strategy experience? If so, approximately what percentage has been able to do so?
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:08:45 PM)
Therefore in my job search I will also focus on some other industries, mainly related to retailing. Within the financial services, I am considering the area of Micro-Finance for example.
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 1:09:40 PM)
Priya, corporate strategy would be a good career move post IMD. I can't quote statistics at the moment, but I believe that corporate strategy / business development would be a very natural career steps post IMD.
Linda Abraham (May 14, 2008 1:09:41 PM)
Tomas, what do you like best at IMD? What would you like to see improved?
Linda Abraham (May 14, 2008 1:10:07 PM)
Janet, are any sectors particularly active in hiring IMD grads?
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:10:09 PM)
Linda- Well, first of all, the mixture of the class is just amazing! Since I am already 30 with 6 years of business experience, I was looking for program where I would be among peers in terms of age and experience.
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 1:10:49 PM)
Linda, 70% of our graduates go into industry after IMD (15% into consulting, 15% into finance / banking). Students often select us because of our strong relationships with industry.
Linda Abraham (May 14, 2008 1:11:06 PM)
Janet, what percentage of accepted students was accepted each round? Is there an advantage to applying in different rounds?
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:11:17 PM)
I can very much leverage on the experience of my diverse class mates. In addition, the program offers a very strong curriculum which is focused on real implications rather then just academicals.
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 1:12:02 PM)
Linda, We accept the best students from every round - with no specific percentage allocated. We always recommend earlier is better (Feb, April, June deadlines) but in reality we take people from every deadline.
Sofia (May 14, 2008 1:12:04 PM)
Janet, could you tell what percentage of people selected for interview are accepted for the MBA program?
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:12:21 PM)
Linda, we have many projects going on, which includes the exposure to the actual companies.
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 1:12:28 PM)
Sofia, normally about 50% of those selected for the interview are ultimately offered a place in the MBA program.
Linda Abraham (May 14, 2008 1:12:46 PM)
Janet, IMD has a demanding and extensive interview process. I have read about it in the MBA Admissions Feedback Database (http://www.accepted.com/mba/interviewfeedback.aspx ). How do you use the interview in the evaluation process?
Priya (May 14, 2008 1:13:02 PM)
Janet: If someone applies for one of the later rounds, and there have been admits in the previous rounds with similar background / credentials / performance, what is the possibility that this applicant be typically accepted versus waitlisted? Is it common that waitlisted applicants for year (say 2009) get deferred admission in the 2010?
Linda Abraham (May 14, 2008 1:13:39 PM)
Tomas, what would you like to see improved at IMD?
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 1:13:50 PM)
Linda, the interview is critical in the evaluation process! I'll let Tomas comment about the interview day itself.
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:14:17 PM)
Well, it is really hard to tell.....I cannot think of anything critical regarding IMD.
Linda Abraham (May 14, 2008 1:14:52 PM)
It's the prefect program in your eyes! :-) That great. Perhaps you can comment on the interview day.
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:14:55 PM)
Unlike other schools, the interview day at IMD is very demanding.
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 1:15:10 PM)
Priya, We're looking for diversity in the class, so yes it's possible that if someone has been accepted in the early rounds with exactly your profile, your chances are lower. Consequently, it's important to tell us in your application why you are unique- what you can bring to the program that no one else can!
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:15:22 PM)
I also went through the INSEAD admission process, and there is a difference!
sash (May 14, 2008 1:15:23 PM)
Janet, I am planning to send my profile to IMD for a pre-assessment feedback. Does the feedback provided by the school give good indications of one's chances of getting into IMD? Do they provide feedback around areas to work on?
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 1:15:42 PM)
Priya, secondly, we do not give deferred admission to waitlisted candidates. We make a decision for each year.
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:15:54 PM)
The interview day is basically all day long event.
Linda Abraham (May 14, 2008 1:16:00 PM)
Janet, do you have any suggestions for waitlisted applicants?
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:16:11 PM)
The school will send you the preparation material to read a couple of week ahead of the time.
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 1:16:33 PM)
Sash, that's exactly the purpose of the "Assess your Chances" survey. An admissions committee member reviews your survey and then gives you feedback about your fit with IMD and areas that could improve your application.
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:16:41 PM)
The actual day consist of several sections.
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 1:16:59 PM)
Linda, Waitlisted applicants should be patient. They may check in with our admissions team from time to time to get the status of their application.
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:17:15 PM)
One of them is the discussion with a faculty member and other applicants(typically it is 5-7 of them), on the topic which everyone received in advance.
Linda Abraham (May 14, 2008 1:17:44 PM)
Janet, if you are looking at an application and the numbers and basic profile is in the ballpark for an IMD student, what distinguishes an application that is accepted from one that is rejected?
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:18:27 PM)
In another section you are asked to prepare in just a 30 minutes a impromptu presentation and present it to others. Also there is one on one interview.
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 1:18:57 PM)
Linda, What distinguishes a candidate on the application itself is the "story" they tell: what have they achieved so far, what would they like to achieve, and why is IMD a good fit to bridge the two.
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:19:02 PM)
You will also spend some time with current participants.
Linda Abraham (May 14, 2008 1:19:17 PM)
Janet, do you provide feedback to rejected applicants?
Priya (May 14, 2008 1:20:26 PM)
Tomas: What do like best about IMD?
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 1:20:35 PM)
Linda, They may request feedback and schedule a time to speak with our Admissions Director on the telephone if they would like to know more.
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:21:29 PM)
Priya, what I like the most is probably the way the classes are taught.
Linda Abraham (May 14, 2008 1:21:35 PM)
Janet, there appears to be tremendous emphasis on leadership development at IMD. How does IMD develop leaders?
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:21:54 PM)
Priya, on every class we have a real case to read.
Linda Abraham (May 14, 2008 1:21:57 PM)
Tomas, what distinguishes the way classes are taught, and what is your favorite class?
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:22:20 PM)
And often we have a visitor from the company arriving to the class and having a discussion with us. Also the projects we are doing are very real. For example I am now in the project helping the British chocolate company.
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 1:22:59 PM)
Linda, We take people with demonstrated leadership skills and help them develop themselves even further. Through personal leadership work, 20 sessions with a trained psychologist if they wish, understanding of teams and organizations and bringing in business leaders to share their experiences.
sash (May 14, 2008 1:23:18 PM)
Janet, In Europe, how does the industry rate an IMD MBA against a London Business School / INSEAD MBA? I am aware of the rankings, however would like to know industry perception...
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:23:25 PM)
Also we are helping the Swiss startup company to succeed in the market. There are many executive programs here at IMD, so there is chance to meet executives from the world’s best companies.
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 1:24:51 PM)
Sash, At IMD we have strong relationships with industry. We have 190 companies in our "Learning Network" and we have strong relationships with many companies for our MBA + executive programs. It would probably be best to ask industry contacts directly for their specific comments.
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:24:59 PM)
What is also very important for us is the career services department.
They are really working hard to find us the right jobs, helping us to identify our strengths, formulate CVs and motivation letters. They also are organizing on-campus recruiting featuring some 65+ companies!
Linda Abraham (May 14, 2008 1:25:57 PM)
Janet, how is recruiting going this year? How are compensation packages when compared to previous years? Are you feeling the credit crunch?
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:26:25 PM)
What I also like very much is the leadership stream. It is very much about our psychology and helping us to fine-tune our leadership capabilities.
Sofia (May 14, 2008 1:27:03 PM)
Janet, how does IMD sees couples that are applying together for the MBA program?
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 1:27:04 PM)
Linda, Our official recruiting process will start in June with company presentations and October with interviews, so it's a little early to tell. For last year's class, the average salary was $129,000 - one of the highest ever.
Linda Abraham (May 14, 2008 1:27:24 PM)
Wow! That's impressive.
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 1:27:42 PM)
Sofia, It's no problem for couples to apply. We evaluate each of you on your merits and make our selection decision independently. Probably once every 2 years we have a couple in the program.
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:27:48 PM)
We are working in close teams, which are changing every couple of months.
Linda Abraham (May 14, 2008 1:28:01 PM)
Janet, is there any advice that you have specifically for applicants from the US, or from other parts of the world?
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:28:17 PM)
At every moment, we are members of multiple teams. I am currently in 3 different teams. Also, from time to time, we have so called integrative exercises.
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 1:29:10 PM)
Linda, My advice for all applicants is to prepare the application carefully and tell us about yourself, your achievements , what you will contribute to the class and what you hope to get out of the class. International experience is important, so it's good to highlight your experiences in that area: working abroad, studying abroad, languages, etc.
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:29:41 PM)
Integrative Exercises are given assignments which typically include complex business issues, which we need to solve. It is very intensive and lasts for couple of days (and nights).
Linda Abraham (May 14, 2008 1:30:07 PM)
Janet, are there any special considerations for re-applicants at IMD? Should reapplicants obtain recommendations from different recommenders? If an applicant is does not receive encouragement to reapply, is it a waste for that applicant to do so?
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:30:45 PM)
Recently, we were advising a large company on its acquisition strategy (including target company identification, valuation calculations, strategy definition). Also we had an integrative exercise where we defined the strategy, marketing & financials for a bicycle company entering the Pakistani market.
Linda Abraham (May 14, 2008 1:31:48 PM)
Tomas: What has been your not-to-be missed class? Who has been your best professor?
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 1:32:02 PM)
Linda, Before someone reapplies, we definitely encourage them to speak with our admissions director to get feedback on their application - so they know what were the issues and where to improve. Then they should resubmit the application with those things in mind. We also require 2 additional letters of recommendation. We try to give honest feedback, and then it's up to the applicant to decide to make the investment to try again.
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:32:20 PM)
Linda, I very much enjoy the entrepreneurship class, which is led by our program director.
Linda Abraham (May 14, 2008 1:32:40 PM)
Janet, How are IMD graduates doing in the US job market? Their home countries' job markets?
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:32:41 PM)
It is focused on doing business in small companies and includes venture capital and private equity techniques. Buy-out engineering, IPOs, etc.. I also liked the marketing class, which gave us a very solid marketing recapitulation and helped us to digest all what is necessary in marketing.
Linda Abraham (May 14, 2008 1:34:17 PM)
Tomas, is it also taught using cases?
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 1:34:17 PM)
Linda, Most graduates have been able to achieve their career objectives - either at home or in another market. Normally about 70% of our graduates stay in Europe. Last year 11% went to Asia, 7% to the US, 7% to the Middle East, and 5% to Latin America. They have all done well, as demonstrated by their high average salary.
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:34:31 PM)
Yes, every class uses cases. Even accounting does.
Linda Abraham (May 14, 2008 1:34:59 PM)
Janet, Does IMD accept 3-year bachelor’s degrees?
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 1:35:25 PM)
Linda, Can you expand on that question a little?
Linda Abraham (May 14, 2008 1:36:06 PM)
Many Indians earn their first degree in 3 years. Do you require a 4th year or master’s degree or do you accept people who have a 3-year bachelor’s degree? Is my question clear now?
Priya (May 14, 2008 1:36:41 PM)
Tomas, can you share your experience working in study groups?
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 1:36:56 PM)
Linda, Thanks for the clarification. We do require a 4th year masters degree.
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:37:09 PM)
Priya, well, it is very tough. We are working very closely together every day, including weekends. So you can imagine, that there are lots of frictions going on.
Sofia (May 14, 2008 1:37:53 PM)
Janet, what are the skills analyzed in the case interview?
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:38:02 PM)
But it is part of the game, we are encouraged to talk very openly. We are even forced to open ourselves to others and explore all what is happening underneath our masks...:)
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 1:38:32 PM)
Sofia, In the case interview we're looking for 3 things: the quality of your analysis, how you express yourself, and how you work together with the others in the group.
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:39:05 PM)
But I must say it is very helpful. It gives you the great opportunity to explore yourself. And you can get feedback from you team mates. This is all part of the leadership stream.
Linda Abraham (May 14, 2008 1:39:41 PM)
Janet and Tomas, do you have any suggestions for students about to start at IMD?
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:40:11 PM)
Get a good rest before coming here!
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 1:40:45 PM)
Linda, They should prepare themselves mentally for a "marathon". It's a tough and demanding year but if they are prepared for it . . it's really a great experience.
Linda Abraham (May 14, 2008 1:41:44 PM)
Janet: Will IMD consider applicants who already have an MBA and want a second MBA?
sash (May 14, 2008 1:42:32 PM)
Janet, What is the average monthly living cost in Lausanne?
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 1:42:34 PM)
Linda, Where it makes sense, yes. For examples, Indians often get a first MBA directly after their undergraduate. Then they work for several years and want to get an International MBA. That makes sense and we have a few each year in our program.
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 1:43:13 PM)
Sash, We estimate the monthly living cost is about Sfr (Swiss Francs) 3,000 for a single person.
Linda Abraham (May 14, 2008 1:43:21 PM)
Tomas: Do IMD participants have the opportunity to interact with professors outside of class?
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:43:52 PM)
Yes, we have lunches all together. So you can not only meet the faculties, but also other program participants. Sometimes we go out in the evening and faculties join us.
flolok (May 14, 2008 1:44:37 PM)
Janet : Have you any alumni who work in non-profit organization in Africa?
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 1:45:20 PM)
Flolok, We have one whom I can think of specifically. She is currently working in The Congo. She came from an NGO background and decided that she wanted to go back.
Linda Abraham (May 14, 2008 1:45:47 PM)
Janet and Tomas, what question do you wish we would have asked this morning?
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:45:56 PM)
We have a few classmates coming from non-profit organizations. One of them from Africa.
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 1:48:07 PM)
Linda, I'd like Tomas to tell us more about our Leadership Stream. Students tell us that it's often one of the best parts of the program, but they didn't really understand it before they joined.
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:48:32 PM)
Yes, this is a very strong part of the program.
Linda Abraham (May 14, 2008 1:48:43 PM)
OK. Tomas, could you please tell us more about the Leadership Stream?
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:48:53 PM)
But perhaps the most complex, and it was difficult for us to understand it from the beginning. We were introduced to many psychological techniques which we really did’nt know if they could be of any meaningful use to us. Only after couple of months, we started to understand the real benefit and value of this "treatment".
flolok (May 14, 2008 1:50:41 PM)
Janet: Does the social program take an important part in IMD?
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:50:55 PM)
We discovered, that it is our unconscious, which makes the decision.
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 1:51:08 PM)
Flolok, I'm not sure what you mean - can you explain more?
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:51:09 PM)
We learned how to understand it. Each of us also has possibilities to take psychoanalyst sessions, including our partners. It was very difficult for many of us from the beginning, because most of us did not think we needed one. But it is not aimed to "fix" us, but to help us understand our own behavioral patterns.
flolok (May 14, 2008 1:54:02 PM)
Janet: I am referring to social development program (learn about politics, people etc.).
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:54:26 PM)
Flolok, Yes, we have a class on international political economy.
Linda Abraham (May 14, 2008 1:54:43 PM)
Flolock, are you asking more about the interaction between business, government, and social issues or are you talking more about using business techniques and strategies to achieve social goals?
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:54:51 PM)
Which deals with a lot of social issues around the world including globalization, poverty, etc. Regarding people, we also have several classes on organizational behavior, leading people, etc.
flolok (May 14, 2008 1:56:53 PM)
Linda, I am asking about business techniques and strategies to achieve goals.
JagatGuru (May 14, 2008 1:57:47 PM)
Janet - I apologize if this question has been asked before but 1 - How is the IMD program different from its peers, and 2 - what is IMD looking for from its applicants? Thanks!
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 1:57:59 PM)
Flolok, One place where you see all this come together is in our Discovery Expedition - this year to Kenya. Our objective is to understand a country and what business can do to help country address its issues and change / grow.
flolok (May 14, 2008 1:58:20 PM)
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:58:38 PM)
JagatGuru, the main differences are: Class size (only 90 and very intensive relationships)
& the age and experiences of the candidates (we are on average 31 years old with 7 years of business experiences).
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 1:59:29 PM)
JagatGuru, From applicants we're looking to make the best class of 90 who can learn from each other and share their knowledge. In an individual, we are looking for good career progression, international experience, leadership experience, intellectual ability and someone with the desire to continue to grow.
ABC (May 14, 2008 1:59:32 PM)
I looked at the graduating class and do not recall any having a degree more advanced than a Master's. Do any of your students have backgrounds that include PhD's in physical sciences?
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 1:59:39 PM)
Jagat: Then there is also the intensity of the program - basically we work and study every day.
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 2:00:00 PM)
ABC, Yes we do have PhD's as well as medical doctors. Probably a few each year.
Priya (May 14, 2008 2:00:05 PM)
Janet, how much importance is given to Ethics as a part of the curriculum?
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 2:00:18 PM)
Jagat: Also the program is very focused on real things (we work with real companies, delivering real projects, have real guest speakers, etc).
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 2:01:02 PM)
ABC, I have a post-grad in business administration
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 2:01:40 PM)
Priya, Ethics is integrated throughout the program - in every class where it is relevant to the discussion. In addition, we have a week long module on ethics and how people may think about it from their cultural heritage, religious heritage or personal philosophy. Fascinating with such a diverse group of students!
JagatGuru (May 14, 2008 2:01:48 PM)
Janet - one last question - how is the learning culture at IMD. Is it teamwork oriented, or competitive or somewhere in between? Also is IMD holding any sessions in the US? Thanks!
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 2:02:32 PM)
Jagat, it is not really competitive, we work very closely in teams and cooperatively with the class. The team work is the basis for almost every assignment we have.
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 2:03:05 PM)
JagatGuru, We say that IMD is the "global meeting place". All of our classes take place in Switzerland and the global learning comes from the diversity of the class. With they exception of the Discovery Expedition, all of our classes take place in Lausanne .. a very international place itself!
ABC (May 14, 2008 2:03:10 PM)
Your recent placement list excludes some of the largest and most successful financial companies in the US (Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley etc.) Are you not focused on finance, or is this just a coincidence?
Linda Abraham (May 14, 2008 2:03:37 PM)
Thank you again all for participating today. Special thanks to Janet and Tomas.
We look forward to seeing you at future chats. Please check our Website (http://www.accepted.com/chat/schedule.aspx#mba ) for details and exact time.
Good luck with your applications!
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 2:03:51 PM)
ABC, No we are not focused on finance. Typically 70% of our students go into industry post IMD.
JanetShanerIMD (May 14, 2008 2:04:02 PM)
Thanks to all for joining us!
TomasZahradnikIMD (May 14, 2008 2:04:09 PM)
Thank you and good luck