2009 Michigan Ross MBA Waitlist Chat with Soojin Kwon Koh
2009 Michigan Ross MBA Waitlist Chat with Soojin Kwon Koh
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Linda Abraham (Mar 30, 2009 1:00:00 PM)
Hello. My name is Linda Abraham. I am the founder of Accepted.com and the moderator of today’s chat. First I want to welcome you all to Accepted.com’s Michigan Ross waitlist chat. I also want to welcome Soojin Kwon Koh, Director of MBA Admissions, and Doug Thomas, Senior Associate Director of Ross MBA Admissions. We also have two current Ross students, Matt Schaar and FA:
- Matt Schaar is in the second year of a dual MBA/MPP degree at the University of Michigan, focusing on corporate strategy and international policy. He graduated in 2003 with a BSE in Aerospace Engineering from Michigan and worked for several aerospace firms in the US, Europe, and Brazil prior to returning to Ann Arbor for graduate school.
- FA worked in Film/TV production and then as a Campus Recruiter for American Express in NY before coming to Ross, where she is concentrating in Marketing and Corporate Strategy. She spent her summer as a Brand Management intern at Campbell Soup Company and will be joining Procter & Gamble as an Assistant Brand Manager in their professional hair care division. F is originally from Philadelphia, worked in NY for a number of years, and will be moving to LA upon graduation.
Thanks to everyone for joining.
Linda Abraham (Mar 30, 2009 1:03:40 PM)
Soojin: Do you want to know about new developments in our lives?
Linda Abraham (Mar 30, 2009 1:03:46 PM)
Doug: When will the waitlist be reviewed?
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:05:04 PM)
Thanks to everyone for logging in to find out more about the waitlist process. At Ross, we do accept new information from waitlisted applicants if there have been significant developments since you submitted your application. "Significant" might mean an improved GMAT score, a promotion or award, or a new job. We don't need additional recommendation letters or essays.
waitlisted@ross (Mar 30, 2009 1:05:31 PM)
Soojin: How many people are currently on the Ross waitlist?
DougThomasROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:06:05 PM)
Linda, the waitlist will be thoroughly reviewed again at the end of Round 3, but it is possible that some people may hear something sooner.
Lindsye (Mar 30, 2009 1:06:23 PM)
Doug: Are on-campus interviews conducted by admissions representatives or students?
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:06:32 PM)
To answer the question about when people are admitted from the waitlist - it can happen anytime between mid-May until the end of August. It really depends on how many people who've been admitted decide to enroll.
R2 Waitlistee (Mar 30, 2009 1:07:05 PM)
Soojin: Hello, I am a R2 waitlisted applicant but received another interview request on March 26th. After speaking to Admissions, I was informed that my interviewer never submitted her feedback. Isn’t the interview a part of the overall application evaluation process? Does not having my interviewer's response have an impact on me being waitlisted?
Linda Abraham (Mar 30, 2009 1:07:26 PM)
F: Were you on the waitlist or admitted right away?
DougThomasROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:07:27 PM)
Lindsye, on-campus interviews may be conducted by students or staff. They are both weighted the same.
FAROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:07:42 PM)
Hi Linda, I was waitlisted.
RossFirstChoice (Mar 30, 2009 1:07:42 PM)
Matt: What proportion of students got admitted from the R1 waitlist?
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:08:05 PM)
Waitlisted@ross, Last year, we purposely decreased the size of our waitlist because we wanted to minimize the number of people who would be feeling like their lives were "on hold" while they awaited a decision. This year, because of the uncertainty in the market, we increased the waitlist a bit.
Linda Abraham (Mar 30, 2009 1:08:19 PM)
F: Did you do anything while you were on the waitlist that you believed helped you get accepted?
Raja (Mar 30, 2009 1:08:29 PM)
Soojin: What is the typical acceptance rate among the waitlisted applicants?
GoBlue (Mar 30, 2009 1:08:42 PM)
Doug: When you say that some people might hear sooner, does it apply for admits as well as rejects?
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:09:15 PM)
R2 waitlistee - yes, you are correct that an interview is part of the overall review process. We occasionally reach out to applicants for an additional interview if we need more information.
FAROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:09:23 PM)
Linda, yes I did. The first thing I did was reach out to Ross alumni at my company to let them know I'd been waitlisted. I asked them for advice and one of the alumni had gone through the same process, so she guided me.
GoBlue (Mar 30, 2009 1:09:25 PM)
Soojin: How many Round 1 applicants were accepted off the waitlist? Are R 1 and R 2 waitlisted applicants considered on par?
Linda Abraham (Mar 30, 2009 1:09:58 PM)
F, what did she suggest you do and what did you do?
FAROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:10:26 PM)
Linda, she suggested that I 1) Reach out Admissions to let them know Ross was still my #1 choice and 2) Try to get feedback from my admissions rep on what was the committee's concern. I wanted to be sure the steps I took would help address those concerns. Once I knew what some of the issues admissions had with my application were, I went about creating a plan of attack to help the committee realize I was serious and would work diligently to increase my chances for acceptance.
DougThomasROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:10:35 PM)
Go Blue, my sense is that a few people may be admitted earlier than our May 15 Round 3 decision notification, but I do not think we will reject anyone prior to that date.
Karen (Mar 30, 2009 1:11:01 PM)
Doug, have you seen a significant increase in applications in all of the rounds (if numbers for Round 3 are available) and does Ross plan on accommodating this increase by adding to the class size?
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:11:07 PM)
Raja - historical acceptance rates for waitlisted applicants are not an indicator of future acceptance rates. We vary the size of the waitlist each year depending on what is happening in the marketplace. It is difficult to predict with any certainty what the yield on admitted students will be from year to year. Those are the two things that drive the number of acceptances off of the waitlist.
tyler (Mar 30, 2009 1:11:09 PM)
Soojin: Following up to the 'significant' updates and specifically work-related updates: If my employer does formal 'grading' each review period, would it be useful to know how I've been 'graded' the past few quarters?
Linda Abraham (Mar 30, 2009 1:11:37 PM)
Matt, were you waitlisted and if so what did you do to get accepted from the waitlist?
Sam (Mar 30, 2009 1:11:43 PM)
Hi Soojin, I'm a Round 2 waitlisted candidate. I was not interviewed during the Round 2 review. I read on the Google group that all waitlisted candidate who weren't interviewed will be interviewed in the coming days. Can you confirm that?
DougThomasROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:12:27 PM)
Karen, our application volume was actually somewhat flat this year. We are considering increasing our class size, but this is really due the fact that we have a brand new facility that can accommodate more students.
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:12:39 PM)
GoBlue - we admitted about a dozen folks from the Round 1 waitlist during Round 2. Yes, R1 and R2 WL applicants are considered on par with each other as we review them during R3. Applicants from both rounds will get the same consideration.
ShireKuch (Mar 30, 2009 1:12:47 PM)
Doug: If sending in a new GMAT scores, is it beneficial to email the unofficial documents from the testing center so that you receive them earlier?
maris (Mar 30, 2009 1:12:53 PM)
Hi Soojin. I'm planning on retaking the GMAT in early May. If I let my admissions contact know of my test date, will they wait to issue a decision on my application until the new test scores are in?
MattSchaarROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:13:34 PM)
Linda, to supplement F's comments, I think Ross enjoys learning about candidates that have clear, specific reasons for attending the program -- if there's things that weren't reflected in your application that show your specific commitment to the learning objectives here at Ross, it's a good thing to highlight them (specifically, I highlighted my campus visit and the students/faculty with whom I communicated in my updates).
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:13:59 PM)
Tyler - I'd submit the new performance rating only if it is significantly different (better) than what your recommenders may have indicated about you. Generally, we expect that work performance was good and will continue to be good. However, if you've received a promotion or received a significant award, we welcome you letting us know about that.
maris (Mar 30, 2009 1:14:01 PM)
F: Did your admissions rep give you any feedback on your application?
Raja (Mar 30, 2009 1:14:07 PM)
F: When you say "get feedback from your admissions rep", do you mean from the person who interviewed you?
DougThomasROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:14:14 PM)
ShireKuch, It certainly doesn't hurt to send the unofficial copy of your score report since it does take an average of 2-3 weeks for them to be available directly for the testing agency.
yenner (Mar 30, 2009 1:14:28 PM)
Doug: Is there any significance to being waitlisted after your R2 interview?
EmilyM (Mar 30, 2009 1:14:41 PM)
Soojin: How common is it for waitlisted applicants to receive a decision at the R3 deadline? Will most hear throughout the summer?
FAROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:15:05 PM)
Raja, no it was from a contact I had in Admissions that I knew from my previous work as a Recruiter.
Linda Abraham (Mar 30, 2009 1:15:49 PM)
Matt and F: What aspect of the Ross program do you like best? Least?
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:16:02 PM)
Maris - we will use the information we have at the given time to make a decision about a WL applicant. If you are planning to retake the GMAT in early May, do let us know so it can be noted in your file. When we review your file again, we'll know to look for a new score. If we don't see a new score (and you told us you were going to retake the test), we would likely decide to hold off on making a decision.
DougThomasROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:16:02 PM)
Yenner, Not really. Students interviewed may have ended up denied or admitted as well.
RossFirstChoice (Mar 30, 2009 1:16:06 PM)
Soojin: I know you said that you don't need additional recommendations. What if the recommendation is from an entirely different source (from volunteering activity rather than from work)?
Uma (Mar 30, 2009 1:16:07 PM)
Doug: Thanks for taking time to answer our questions. I am a Consortium applicant and R2 WL w/o interview. What effect may my WL status have on Consortium membership, if I am ultimately admitted to Ross? Will I no longer be considered for the full benefits of the Consortium?
MattSchaarROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:17:47 PM)
Great question, Linda: As a dual-degree student in the Public Policy program, I can really attest to the flexibility of the academic and professional resources you have here at Ross. With over a dozen graduate programs in the top ten on one campus, and with a less rigid curriculum, Ross allows you to truly pursue a variety of opportunities in your two or three years here.
DougThomasROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:18:13 PM)
Uma, That's a question that should probably be addressed offline with our Consortium representative. I suggest you email email@example.com with your concerns and ask them to forward it to the correct person. You can certainly mention my name in the email. In addition, you should have been contacted regarding an invitation to interview by now, so you may want to mention this also.
EmilyM (Mar 30, 2009 1:18:16 PM)
Doug: How common is it for waitlisted applicants to receive a decision by the R3 deadline? Will a majority be notified throughout the summer?
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:18:32 PM)
EmilyM - It's hard to say how many WL people will get a decision (admit or deny) on May 15. It depends on how many admitted students choose to enroll. Once we have a better sense of the number of admits accepting our offer (which will be mid-May), then we can determine how many WL applicants to accept during Round 3. We do expect to admit WL folks throughout the summer as well, on a rolling basis as spots open up.
roman (Mar 30, 2009 1:18:42 PM)
Doug: For applicants who may not have 'significant' new information to report, do you recommend reviewing your application and addressing some of the weakness, that you felt the original application had? i.e. fill in the missing pieces?
tyler (Mar 30, 2009 1:18:44 PM)
Soojin: If we were recently invited to interview (after the WL decision was made), will our interviewer know that we're WL candidates rather than R3? Does it change how the interview is run? (I.e. is focus more on what you're doing to get accepted from WL rather than the typical pre-WL interview format)?
FAROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:18:52 PM)
Linda, for me, this really was the best program without a doubt. I have a dual interest in Marketing and HR and the school is well known for both disciplines. All of the top companies within those fields come here to recruit. In addition, I really wanted to have experience living in the mid-west because it's a very different from my undergrad experience of being in an urban school. Most importantly, what I love about Ross is the degree to which students and alumni help one another out. This is one of the biggest reasons I was so keen to come to Ross. All the alumni at my former company, American Express, were so supportive of me applying to school here. That sense of wanting to help out was very apparent during this past recruiting season. Also, despite the economic downturn I've felt a great deal of goodwill and willingness to help one another out amongst my classmates. While not surprising, it's made me realize how lucky I am to have come here for my MBA.
Linda Abraham (Mar 30, 2009 1:19:56 PM)
Matt and F: What class or professor is simply not to be missed?
DougThomasROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:20:37 PM)
Roman, I guess it would not be a bad thing to address an area that you may feel was weak, but it is much more common for students to simply submit new compelling information.
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:20:38 PM)
RossFirstChoice - if your volunteer activity is significant (i.e., you devote a good chunk of time to it on a regular basis) and you played a significant role (e.g., you played a leadership role), you could have someone who knows, first-hand, the role you played and the impact you had, write a recommendation letter for you.
NoahGringarten (Mar 30, 2009 1:20:42 PM)
Soojin: Hi, I am currently working on an update letter. However, reading last year's chat, I noticed that you do not recommend sending additional recommendation letters. Since I am highly interested in being accepted to Ross, are there any other things I can do to improve my candidacy?
Samantha (Mar 30, 2009 1:20:51 PM)
Hi Doug- historically, when do the majority of waitlisted applicants hear their final decision?
MattSchaarROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:21:08 PM)
Linda, as for my least favorite thing, it's sort of self-imposed, but I convinced myself that I would become best friends with my 430 classmates by the time I graduated. So in some ways, I've been disappointed with the social interactions from time to time. My best advice is to find a core group of people in the program quickly and spend two years enjoying all Ann Arbor has to offer!
Linda Abraham (Mar 30, 2009 1:22:19 PM)
Matt and F, did you feel in any way disadvantaged by having been accepted from the waitlist?
DougThomasROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:22:36 PM)
Samantha, historically, students hear throughout the summer. We notify international students up until the beginning of July. After this it becomes difficult to obtain a visa. For domestic students, some will be admitted up until the middle of August.
MattSchaarROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:22:52 PM)
Linda, my favorite class here has been Strategies for Growth with Aneel Karnani. It's a case-based course in which he really puts you in the driver's seat for assessing a variety of companies' positions for growing their market share, profits, etc. Because the case studies are unique -- ranging from Nokia to funeral parlors, it provides a strong, broad perspective on multiple business models.
FAROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:24:06 PM)
Linda, while I've learned from all my classes, the classes I have truly loved have been in Corporate Strategy. I didn't know much about the department or the faculty, but the professors are an amazing bunch. Aneel Karnani (Strategies for Growth), Sendil Ethiraj (Core Strategy Course), Linda Lim (Biz in Asia) and Gautam Ahuja (Advanced Competitive Analysis).
MattSchaarROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:24:08 PM)
Linda, other than missing out on Go Blue Rendezvous, I didn't find myself at a disadvantage at all. I still had time to sign up for an M-Trek, attend all the pre-course workshops, and spend a few weeks in Ann Arbor prior to orientation.
GoBlue (Mar 30, 2009 1:24:31 PM)
Doug: Would you have any estimated figures for the probable class size increase? Will Ross be making an announcement about it soon?
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:25:33 PM)
Noah - thanks for being thorough with the research! The best thing you can do is try to look at your application through the eyes of the AdCom - are your numbers in our ballpark, do you have solid work experience, did you answer the essay questions well? The reality is, there are really only a few levers you can move at this point - your numbers and your achievements, and we welcome you to provide updates in those two areas. Significant achievements can be accompanied by an additional recommendation letter. But another recommendation letter for the sake of having another person say similar things about you that the other two recommenders already did won't really help you. Part of being successful in the waitlist process is using good judgment. Submitting additional information that isn't "significant" in the AdCom's eyes can actually work against you. I know it's a tough balancing act, but many have managed it well, as did Matt Schaar and FA - two students who were admitted off of the waitlist a couple years ago.
GoBlue (Mar 30, 2009 1:25:41 PM)
Soojin: Does the GMAT depend on the demographics? Would you suggest a WL candidate improve his/her score (which is near the average) or work on improving overall application and profile?
FAROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:26:02 PM)
Linda, I didn't feel disadvantaged at having been admitted through the waitlist. I got off the list relatively early, so I felt I had enough time to make decisions and get ready for school.
Raja (Mar 30, 2009 1:26:53 PM)
Soojin: Is it possible for me to know who my admissions representative is?
FAROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:27:04 PM)
Linda, the one thing I would recommend to all students who are accepted off the waitlist is to come here for a visit and to figure out where you'll live. I did that over the internet and sort of regretted it afterwards.
Linda Abraham (Mar 30, 2009 1:27:39 PM)
Leads to my next question: Matt and F, any tips for people leaving the working world and returning to school?
DougThomasROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:27:50 PM)
GoBlue, I would assume that something regarding the possible increase of our incoming class would be reported soon. I don't know specifics yet.
MattSchaarROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:27:54 PM)
Linda, I was admitted off the waitlist in June, so I had some time as well. I completed my undergraduate degree here at Michigan as well, so I did know Ann Arbor already. I'd echo F's comment -- if you don't know the city too well, make a visit here (or get in touch with a current student) to get your housing arrangements all sorted out.
EGII (Mar 30, 2009 1:29:10 PM)
Doug: Are new extra curricular activities considered worthy of including in an update?
FAROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:29:29 PM)
Spend time with all your friends and family and save your money as much as possible! It took some adjusting for me to get used to being on a student budget and I learned the hard way after my first year :)
MattSchaarROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:29:35 PM)
First thing: Keep in touch with your friends and colleagues throughout your business school experience. It's good to escape from the grad school bubble once in a while and not talk about recruiting, classes, etc. with those that knew you well before you submitted yourself to this experiment. :) Second: Take as much time off as financially/logistically possible before you arrive in Ann Arbor.
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:29:56 PM)
GoBlue - we don't view GMAT scores by demographics. We view them in the context of the applicant's whole profile. If your GMAT score is near our average, and your work experience is "average" in terms of quantity and quality, and your recommendation letters and essays were "average," then a higher GMAT score could help. So that being said, if all things are equal, a higher GMAT score would help. But rarely are all things equal among people on the waitlist.
DougThomasROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:30:07 PM)
EGII, I would only report them if they are significant such as a leadership role or you can show some positive impact.
maris (Mar 30, 2009 1:30:08 PM)
F/Matt: When were you notified of the acceptance? Were you considering any other schools?
Samantha (Mar 30, 2009 1:30:19 PM)
Doug - My question is also regarding the Consortium. Will any effort be made to try to get Consortium applicants off the waitlist before the Consortium's May 30th orientation program?
KP (Mar 30, 2009 1:30:29 PM)
Soojin: Do you consider submitting new coursework and grades in intro accounting/finance courses to be a significant update (assuming we are addressing a low GPA) ?
FAROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:31:13 PM)
Maris, I found out in early June and yes, I was considering another school, but Michigan was my top choice so there was no question I'd come here once I was accepted
MattSchaarROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:31:30 PM)
Maris, I was notified of an invite to interview on May 25th; I completed my interview later that week and received an admit on June 4th (I think). I did have an admit from another program, but held out for Ross as it was my top choice.
tyler (Mar 30, 2009 1:31:41 PM)
Matt and F: Are you able to talk about your own MAP Projects? What you did, where you went, etc?
DougThomasROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:32:10 PM)
Samantha, That is a good question and we will certainly be keeping that date in mind as we address the waitlist, particularly for Consortium applicants.
Raja (Mar 30, 2009 1:32:20 PM)
Doug: Would it be relevant if I send in details about the projects I delivered successfully after I submitted my app?
FAROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:32:24 PM)
Sure Tyler, I did my MAP assignment with Ryanair and traveled to its Headquarters in Dublin, Ireland with my team for 10 days. It was the first time that Ross had worked with Ryanair, so it was a learning opportunity for the school as well as the company. That made it a little challenging at times, but our team learned a lot about low-cost carriers and specifically for Ryanair, what direction they should look to for further growth.
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:32:46 PM)
KP - that's a good question. Yes, if you've taken a quant course and your quant record was relatively weaker (e.g., you didn't take calculus in undergrad, or got a poor grade, and you don't work in a quantitative field, or your GMAT quant score was not the best), then taking a course and sending us your grade can be very helpful info for us to have. But if your quant was already strong to begin with (e.g., you're an engineer or you work in finance or you've taken many quant courses in undergrad), then sending us a grade from a quant course won't really help.
MattSchaarROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:33:13 PM)
Tyler, my MAP was with Microsoft in South Africa; we were based there for five weeks. To tag along with F's comment, MAP experiences can vary across the board, and a lot of it depends on both your team dynamic and the sponsor's attention to the project. Our team expected to accomplish much more than we eventually did, but as a result we discovered the challenges of living and working abroad in close quarters while dealing with a variety of logistical challenges. That environment, I think, was the most valuable takeaway for me.
GoBlue (Mar 30, 2009 1:33:15 PM)
Soojin: Is the current market scenario and its probable impact on placements one of the factors in consideration for admissions this year?
GoBlue (Mar 30, 2009 1:33:25 PM)
F: Can you please tell us a bit more about your waitlist strategy? How often did you send updates, by when did you hear and did you have current students/alumni endorsing you?
tyler (Mar 30, 2009 1:33:51 PM)
Soojin: Can you talk about some of the initiatives/plans the Office of Career Development has in the works given the placement challenges students face in the next few years?
DougThomasROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:33:53 PM)
Raja, I wouldn't necessarily submit the details of the projects, but you may have some significant results to report from the projects that were still coming to completion when you applied.
Raja (Mar 30, 2009 1:33:57 PM)
Doug: You mentioned Ross is considering increasing the class size. Is this applicable to the incoming Fall 2009 class or for posterity?
Lindsye (Mar 30, 2009 1:35:05 PM)
Doug: When do pre-course workshops begin?
Samantha (Mar 30, 2009 1:35:07 PM)
Matt and F- What is the housing situation for people accepted from the waitlist?
DougThomasROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:35:29 PM)
Raja, It is my understanding that this would be for all future classes including the Fall 2009 incoming class. As I mentioned earlier, I hope details will be reported on this shortly.
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:35:41 PM)
A lot of what drives who gets admitted from the waitlist is who decides to enroll. If we find that all of the engineers we admitted enroll, and none of the marketing or finance folks we admitted enroll, then all else equal, we will look to admit people with non-engineering backgrounds because we want to make sure we have a good mix of people in our class. So while the updates can be helpful, to some extent, the class composition determines who gets admitted from the WL.
yenner (Mar 30, 2009 1:35:45 PM)
Doug, do you find that students not admitted from the waitlist often reapply the following year?
Karen (Mar 30, 2009 1:37:17 PM)
Soojin - I thought I read somewhere that admissions reps frown upon WL applicants asking them about the weaknesses on their applications or to provide feedback. Is that true? And if it's not entirely true, what type of feedback can we ask for from our admissions representative?
FAROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:37:23 PM)
Samantha, It depends on how close you wish to live near school. I wanted to be within walking distance of school and by June, the only thing I could find was Nob Hill which is about a mile away. It didn't seem like a long distance until I actually did it :) However, I realized later that if I'd come to campus to figure those things out, I probably would have been able to find something more to my liking. If distance is not big deal, you can find apartments most anywhere up to and including September. I had some classmates who moved here and found places much later so it's nothing to worry about.
DougThomasROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:37:23 PM)
Lindsye, pre-course workshops usually take place during our Ross Leadership Initiative. We do have an Accounting workshop that is historically available the first and/or second weeks of August.
GoBlue (Mar 30, 2009 1:37:33 PM)
Doug: Can you give us a sneak peak into the GBR weekend this year?!
EmilyM (Mar 30, 2009 1:37:57 PM)
F and Matt--regarding your "back up" schools to Ross, how did you handle keeping that offer of admission open considering the time you spent on the waitlist stretched out past most schools' enrollment deadlines?
MattSchaarROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:38:35 PM)
Samantha, you will need to secure housing just like any other student, but I discovered that Craig's List was an extremely valuable tool to help me find a location to live. Like I mentioned, I knew Ann Arbor quite well already, so I would recommend you keep in contact with a current student to get their thoughts on housing opportunities.
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:38:49 PM)
#1 Ross - it is possible that someone could have been waitlisted because of their GMAT score, in conjunction with other indicators of potential academic performance. We use the GMAT as an indicator of academic performance in the first year of the MBA program. We don't want to admit someone only to have the student fail core classes. As such, if someone's score isn't in a range that gives us some confidence of first year performance, we will look to the undergrad transcript and work experience to give us additional insight into potential academic performance.
DougThomasROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:38:51 PM)
Yenner, Students, who may or may not have been waitlisted, reapply all the time. It certainly shows that interest remains high, but other than that, you are considered on equal footing with the new application pool.
Karen (Mar 30, 2009 1:39:02 PM)
Doug: When having current students or alumni endorse your application, what are the things that would make it more interesting as opposed to just saying the applicant is a nice person (on the extremely unhelpful side)?
Raja (Mar 30, 2009 1:39:04 PM)
Soojin: Early action rounds in some schools provide a way to communicate that the particular school is someone's first choice. Based on past experience, what avenues are typically used by those waitlisted at Ross to convey this?
FAROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:39:51 PM)
Emily, it wasn't an issue for me because both of the other schools I was deciding on had rolling admissions and I had until the end of June to make my decision. I would suggest you be transparent about your deadlines with admissions and see what leverage they have. It is a tricky business and doesn't really end when you become a student either when you get internship and FT offers.
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:41:09 PM)
Karen - we do not provide feedback to WL applicants while they are on the WL. At the end of the admissions cycle (late summer) we do invite WL applicants who were not admitted to request a brief feedback session with an AdCom member if they intend to reapply to Ross next fall.
DougThomasROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:41:19 PM)
Karen, we are always looking for examples that highlight an applicant's teamwork or leadership skills, which is why the recommendations with the most impact tend to be from people who are familiar with you in a work setting. I guess the other thing would be if they feel that you would be a good fit with the program and have something to offer Ross.
MattSchaarROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:41:24 PM)
Emily, I took a bit of a gamble and declined the offer from the other program after receiving one extension. After giving it additional thought, I knew that Ross was a perfect fit for me, so I actually applied for the Peace Corps while I was on the waitlist. I don't necessarily recommend that strategy to everyone, but I actively did my homework while in limbo, and those two options made the most sense based on my career goals. Living in Ann Arbor or Central Africa are kind of the same anyway. ;)
waitlisted_app (Mar 30, 2009 1:41:36 PM)
Soojin: How does the Admissions Committee view the MBAMath curriculum? For a waitlisted applicant who feels that GMAT quant is a relative weakness in their application, is a GMAT re-take and higher score the only route to proving quantitative proficiency, or would MBAMath potentially accomplish the same goal?
GoBlue (Mar 30, 2009 1:42:06 PM)
Matt: What impact do the new facilities have this year?
Karen (Mar 30, 2009 1:42:53 PM)
Doug: Is the RLI part of the entrance requirements for Ross? If it is held in the beginning of August and I already know that I will be overseas doing an internship for my current degree program, what can I do?
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:43:04 PM)
Raja - we don't consider where a WL student ranks us to make decisions on who is admitted from the WL. We assume that all those who were offered a spot on the waitlist and indicated that they would like to stay in consideration are interested in Ross.
DougThomasROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:43:21 PM)
#1Ross, We do not have any pre-requisite classes for our program, though we do strongly recommend you have a working understanding of college level calculus. We do not endorse a certain math course over another. Taking a course such as this would really be for your benefit if admitted.
Uma (Mar 30, 2009 1:44:02 PM)
Soojin: I've received an interview invite and have scheduled it close to the April 17th deadline. Is there any disadvantage in doing so?
KT (Mar 30, 2009 1:44:12 PM)
Hello Doug: I have been waitlisted by Ross for the intake in 2009. I would like to check with you whether another recommendation from a current (new) boss be useful to submit before Ross sends me a final decision.
MattSchaarROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:45:18 PM)
GoBlue, aside from having more space to roam around, there's far more meeting rooms for team breakout sessions, which makes scheduling less of a headache. Plus, having a gym on site allows for a lot more flexibility within my daily schedule. We're really pleased with it!
DougThomasROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:45:51 PM)
Karen, RLI takes place the last week of August and the week prior to the start of classes. It is not required and therefore you will not be penalized if you don't attend, but it is strongly recommended and will certainly help you to hit the ground running when classes begin the following week.
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:46:15 PM)
Waitlisted_app: We don't endorse one math course over another. Because there is such great variation in the quality and depth of math courses that applicants take, the GMAT is a better indicator for us to measure applicants by. If you've only taken the GMAT once, or even twice, I would encourage you to consider retaking the GMAT before enrolling in a math course. We know that oftentimes, GMAT scores are affected by test anxiety. The only way to get over the anxiety is by practicing, and retaking it. A math course will really only help your candidacy if your GMAT quant score was on the low side. But if your total score was low, and/or if your quant score was very low, then a math course wouldn't help your case much.
RossFirstChoice (Mar 30, 2009 1:46:19 PM)
Soojin: Will all of the R2 waitlist candidates be assigned an admissions manager? If so, how do I know the name of my admissions manager? Is it the same person who signed the waitlist letter?
KP (Mar 30, 2009 1:46:31 PM)
Doug: If the quant score is not an issue based on a strong GMAT score, is there any other way we should be addressing a very poor undergrad GPA?
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:46:52 PM)
Uma - no there is no disadvantage to doing your interview close to April 17th.
FAROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:46:59 PM)
GoBlue, To add to Matt's view on the new building, one of the things I love about it is the amount of open and airy space, especially when the weather is foul. The winter garden is awesome for hanging out in.
GoBlue (Mar 30, 2009 1:47:24 PM)
Soojin: Has the non cosigner loan for international students been finalized?
DougThomasROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:48:19 PM)
KP, Good question, but not really a lot you can do at this point except maybe point out why you struggled at the time and why it will not be indicative of your future academic record.
KT (Mar 30, 2009 1:48:24 PM)
Doug: Secondly, my GMAT score is in the top 12th percentile. However my quant percentile is 78. Therefore I wanted to check with you: 1) Do I need to improve my GMAT score 2) or prove my quantitative ability?
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:49:15 PM)
GoBlue - we are in the process of working out the details for the no-cosigner loan for international students. Details will be released to all admits and applicants as soon as the deal is finalized.
Karen (Mar 30, 2009 1:49:33 PM)
Soojin: Are dual degree students considered differently from other students?
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:50:02 PM)
Karen - no, dual degrees are reviewed in the same way that we review non-dual degree students. All decisions are made independent of what the other school's decision may be.
Karen (Mar 30, 2009 1:50:06 PM)
Soojin: A follow-up to your response about retaking the GMAT vs. taking a math course to demonstrate quant ability - for students who have equal abilities in both quant and verbal, do you suggest demonstrating an even higher quant ability? In other words, does the AdCom favor one skill over another for preparation in to the Ross program?
DougThomasROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:50:50 PM)
KT, We really take a holistic approach to reviewing an application, so it is impossible to say if your GMAT is an issue. I would only retake the GMAT if you think you can improve significantly. I would not take it to simply improve your score by 10 points.
Linda Abraham (Mar 30, 2009 1:50:58 PM)
Doug: Does a visit to Ross help an applicant’s chances for admission?
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:52:04 PM)
Karen - we value both verbal and quant skills. But we find that many applicants don't do as well on the quant section as they do on the verbal section. If you have equal abilities that are high, then there's not a need to retake the GMAT. But if your equal abilities are not so high, then retaking it can help.
GoBlue (Mar 30, 2009 1:52:08 PM)
Soojin: Being an international applicant, if I am not dependent on the non-cosigner loan, will it help letting the Adcom know that?
DougThomasROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:52:28 PM)
Linda, not necessarily at this stage of the game. I think it helps prior to someone applying since students who visit tend to have a better understanding of our program and what it would mean to them if admitted.
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:52:38 PM)
GoBlue - no, we don't consider financial resources when we evaluate candidates.
Samantha (Mar 30, 2009 1:52:53 PM)
Doug: I will be visiting campus in April and would love the opportunity to sit in on a class. Is that possible?
Linda Abraham (Mar 30, 2009 1:53:00 PM)
Soojin: What applicant behavior detracts from a waitlisted applicant's chances?
tyler (Mar 30, 2009 1:53:31 PM)
F: Can you talk about the job market specifically for folks in marketing functions? Was recruiting a challenge for you and your peers given the economic conditions?
GoBlue (Mar 30, 2009 1:53:58 PM)
Matt and F, how did you maintain your stress level while on the wait list? What would be an over kill vs. passion for Ross?
FAROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:54:17 PM)
Tyler, it's definitely been more challenging for this year's class, but I think Marketing was not as badly affected as say, Banking and Finance. However, there were fewer companies hiring interns and fewer interns from last summer received FT offers. I'm not sure what the latest stats are, but based on most of the people I know I would say about 80% of them now have jobs. Some people decided to go back to their former employers, or they may have taken offers from companies that were not their first choice, but things look more promising than a few months ago.
DougThomasROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:54:38 PM)
Samantha, to view what is available during your visit please check out our website . Depending when you plan to visit in April, the bulk of our classes, other than finals, may be over.
MattSchaarROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:55:06 PM)
Tyler, consulting was also affected, but some firms seemed to maintain a pretty strong recruiting track here.
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:56:28 PM)
Linda - it can hurt applicants if they use poor judgment in the waitlist process. We extrapolate the behavior that someone exhibits throughout the admissions process to how they might behave during the recruiting process once they're students. We want people to exercise good judgment and professionalism. Weekly emails telling us that Ross is still someone's first choice don't help. Knowing that their GMAT score is low and not retaking it can keep a person from being admitted as well. Coming to campus and demanding to meet with an AdCom member to plead your case isn't recommended either.
MattSchaarROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:57:04 PM)
GoBlue: To be honest, I wasn't terribly stressed. I developed a very clear strategy in my attempt to get off the waitlist, and if it wasn't successful, then it was apparent that I wasn't the best fit for the school. I couldn't really worry about things that were out of my control, so I simply provided the information I felt would best help round out my application.
Karen (Mar 30, 2009 1:57:07 PM)
Soojin: You mentioned that students knowing they have a low GMAT score and not retaking can negatively affect their admission prospect. When you say it's low - do you mean below the lower bound of usual Ross scores or below the Ross average for this year?
Linda Abraham (Mar 30, 2009 1:57:18 PM)
For all: Any last minute words of advice?
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:58:19 PM)
Matt makes a good point. Many of these things are out of your control, so don't let the anxiety weigh you down. The fact that you're on the waitlist means that we think you have potential to be a good fit for us.
MattSchaarROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:58:32 PM)
Linda, my best advice would be to consider all your opportunities available. If you put your life on hold while waiting for a response, I think you miss out on a variety of opportunities, both personally and professionally. Keep being ambitious. :)
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:58:35 PM)
Karen - the GMAT is viewed in the context of the entire application, so it's hard to give you an exact score that we consider "low." It depends on work experience, undergrad performance and comments from your recommenders. I know it'd be easier to get a cut and dry answer, but decisions aren't so black and white.
FAROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:58:41 PM)
I was a little anxious about being waitlisted, but I also believe like Matt does, that you wind up where you're meant to. I made sure I did my utmost to express my sincere interest in the school, but otherwise there's not much you can do.
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:58:49 PM)
Good luck throughout the process! I know we'll see many of you this fall!
DougThomasROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:59:04 PM)
I must confess that I don't envy your position as waitlisted candidates, but I hope this chat and our Waitlist Google group help relieve some of the anxiety. I wish everyone the best!
Linda Abraham (Mar 30, 2009 1:59:05 PM)
Thank you again all for participating today. Special thanks to Soojin, Doug, Matt and F for taking the time to virtually meet with you, provide this information, and make this process as easy and understandable as possible.
We look forward to seeing you at future chats- our next chat is our MIT Waitlist Chat- April 7, 2009. If you would like to automatically receive notices about these MBA admissions chats and other MBA admissions events, please subscribe to our MBA event list. Please check the website for additional details. Good luck with your applications!
GoBlue (Mar 30, 2009 1:59:25 PM)
Thank you Soojin, Doug, Matt and F. Hopefully I get to GoBlue with you this fall!
Raja (Mar 30, 2009 1:59:29 PM)
Thanks Soojin! Thanks Doug, Matt and F!
FAROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:59:42 PM)
Good luck to everyone!
MattSchaarROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:59:47 PM)
Thanks Linda -- best of luck, everyone. Go Blue!
Linda Abraham (Mar 30, 2009 1:59:50 PM)
Matt and F, you both have great attitudes.
FAROSS (Mar 30, 2009 1:59:57 PM)
MattSchaarROSS (Mar 30, 2009 2:00:37 PM)
By the way, I am following the Google Groups board, so perhaps I'll interact with some of you there as well.
Karen (Mar 30, 2009 2:01:52 PM)
NoahGringarten (Mar 30, 2009 2:02:36 PM)
Thank you all!