2010 Michigan Ross MBA Waitlist Chat with Soojin Kwon Koh
2010 Michigan Ross MBA Waitlist Chat with Soojin Kwon Koh
Please feel free to let us know if you would like to be informed of future chats by sending e-mail to email@example.com. We would also be interested in knowing if you would prefer a different format or different topics.Linda Abraham (Jan 21, 2010 12:00:00 AM)
Hello. My name is Linda Abraham. I am the founder of Accepted.com and the moderator of today’s chat. First I want to welcome you all to Accepted.com’s Michigan Ross waitlist chat. I also want to welcome
- Soojin Kwon Koh, Director of MBA Admissions.
- Doug Thomas, Senior Associate Director of Ross MBA Admissions.
- Jon Fuller, Senior Associate Director of MBA Admissions.
Thanks to everyone for joining.
demarsgm (Jan 21, 2010 12:00:08 PM)
Soojin: Does the admissions committee favorably view letters of support that describe fit with Ross submitted by current students or alumni?
Anjani (Jan 21, 2010 12:00:24 PM)
Jon: Are there any particular do's and don'ts with respect to the waitlist?
Josh (Jan 21, 2010 12:01:00 PM)
Doug: Does Michigan look favorably at additional recommendations sent in?
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:02:19 PM)
Demarsgm - if someone from the Ross community knows you well, (emphasis on "well") and is willing to write a note of recommendation on your behalf, with an indication of the context in which they've known you, then we will add such a note to an applicant's file. This is not to say that anyone who doesn't know someone from Ross personally is disadvantaged in the process. All pieces of the application are reviewed carefully.
Shubha (Jan 21, 2010 12:02:23 PM)
Hello Soojin, Can you please give us all the statistics - the number of people waitlisted and your guesstimate of the number of converts expected from this list?
JonFullerROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:02:55 PM)
Anjani - Things to do: If you're going to provide us with updated information, please be sure that those updates are *significant*, such as an improved GMAT Score, promotion or new role, award, etc. Not to do: Send daily messages to the office asking about your status or telling us how much you'd love to come to Ross. We understand that it's a stressful time, but rest assured, we'll fully review your candidacy again in Round 2.
MBA2012 (Jan 21, 2010 12:03:01 PM)
Jon: Can you share any Round 1 statistics in terms of total applicants, % admitted, and % waitlisted, etc?
DougThomasROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:03:49 PM)
Josh: Not really. As Soojin mentioned, if it is someone from the Ross community who can weigh in on your fit with the program, then that is fine. Other than that, my sense is that new recommendations will not provide us with any new or significant information.
BlueMaize (Jan 21, 2010 12:03:57 PM)
Doug - I have a GMAT slightly below Ross average. I have a good GPA (would not say great though) but substantial (10+ years) experience. I am confused as to whether my GMAT is one of reasons for me to be on the waitlist. Do you suggest me retaking the GMAT, and if so, how much of an increase would make my application stronger?
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:04:04 PM)
Shubha - the # means as little to you as it does to us. We don't target a certain # of WL'd applicants. In some years we've had a large waitlist, in others we've had a small list. The # who may be admitted from that list also varies, depending on the yield among the folks we admitted.
BlueMaize (Jan 21, 2010 12:04:07 PM)
Hello Soojin - When would the waitlist applications be reconsidered for admission?
JonFullerROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:04:23 PM)
MBA2012 - We don't publicly disclose those kinds of details until the conclusion of the admissions cycle.
Shubha (Jan 21, 2010 12:04:26 PM)
Jon: Can I get feedback (from my interviewer or otherwise) about the weaknesses in my application?
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:04:50 PM)
BlueMaize, we'll review all R1 waitlisted files again with the R2 pool. If there's a change in your status, we'll let you know by March 15. If there's no change in your status, you won't hear from us.
Chiranjive (Jan 21, 2010 12:05:09 PM)
Soojin: What kind of updates should one send to get off the waitlist?
Geetesh (Jan 21, 2010 12:05:48 PM)
Jon: Do we have to send additional information to RossMBA@umich.edu? Is there any specific format in which we have to send an update?
DougThomasROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:06:11 PM)
BlueMaize: Certainly improving your GMAT could help your chances for admission, but I have no idea of knowing if that is your main area for improvement.
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:06:16 PM)
Chiranjive - only substantial updates (e.g., new test scores, a promotion, and change in jobs). The most important thing to do is to confirm your interest in being considered for admission by emailing RossMBA@umich.edu.
Ward (Jan 21, 2010 12:06:17 PM)
Doug: What sort of supporting information is deemed relevant in the waitlist process?
JonFullerROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:06:30 PM)
Shubha: While we understand applicant interest in getting feedback, we do not provide feedback until the conclusion of the admissions cycle. In the event that you are not admitted, we will notify you if we are able to provide you with that kind of opportunity. In the meantime, you could always consult with a trusted friend, colleague, or other individual who you feel could give you constructive advice.
Ross Johnson (Jan 21, 2010 12:06:30 PM)
Soojin: Do you have any special advice for people who arrived on the waitlist via reapplication as opposed to first time applicants?
Janggyun (Jan 21, 2010 12:06:52 PM)
Jon: Thank you for hosting the chat. Would you mind sharing with us why some applicants are being waitlisted?
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:06:57 PM)
Ross Johnson - we view all WL applicants the same, whether they're reapplicants or not.
JonFullerROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:07:12 PM)
Geetesh - Yes, firstname.lastname@example.org is the best conduit to use for updates, and no specific format is required.
Bharath (Jan 21, 2010 12:07:20 PM)
Soojin: What is the recommended format of sending your significant updates to the admissions committee. Will creative formats like a couple of slides be looked at favorably, or do the updates have to be in the format of an email?
DougThomasROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:07:43 PM)
Ward: Basically, new and significant information such as improved GMAT score, promotion, or significant professional/personal accomplishment or award.
Ecuador (Jan 21, 2010 12:07:48 PM)
Jon: Is a visit to the campus a good sign for admissions?
Jeremy K (Jan 21, 2010 12:07:58 PM)
Doug: Is it a good idea to get back in touch with your interviewer about being on the waitlist?
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:08:39 PM)
Bharath - given that the updates that warrant informing the committee about are test scores, promotions and job changes, slides would not be appropriate. An email to RossMBA@umich.edu would suffice.
Chinmay (Jan 21, 2010 12:08:51 PM)
Soojin: Are significant updates to be sent as essays / letters ?
JonFullerROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:08:58 PM)
Janggyun - You're welcome - be sure to thank Linda as well! An individual could be waitlisted for any number of reasons - strength of academics, GMAT, ability to provide a unique perspective to the school, or quantity/quality of work experience. It's highly specific to the individual applicant.
DougThomasROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:09:09 PM)
Jeremy: Not really. I don't know how this would help. The interview is just one piece of the application, and we already have their comments from your original interview.
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:09:11 PM)
Chinmay - an email is fine.
Shubha (Jan 21, 2010 12:09:18 PM)
Jon: When can we expect to hear from you about the converts? Round 2 decision dates or later?
Ecuador (Jan 21, 2010 12:09:27 PM)
Doug: Can any of us request a short meeting with people from admissions (when we visit)?
Ecuador (Jan 21, 2010 12:09:40 PM)
Soojin: If someone has been unemployed for some time and get a new job during this waiting time, would this piece of information qualify as “useful information” compared to getting a promotion?
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:10:10 PM)
Ecuador - yes, getting a new job would be fine to inform the AdComm about.
Josh (Jan 21, 2010 12:10:13 PM)
Soojin: Is it okay if the update isn't a promotion, but rather new responsibilities in the same role?
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:10:26 PM)
Josh - no need to update us on that sort of thing.
BlueMaize (Jan 21, 2010 12:10:33 PM)
Soojin: If I plan to retake my GMAT, when would you advise me to take it so that I do not miss any chances of my file being evaluated again for admission?
JonFullerROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:10:40 PM)
Ecuador - A visit to campus is most beneficial to the applicant - you're able to get a first-hand view of the environment here, the quality of the student body and faculty, etc. We realize that not everyone can visit for a multitude of reasons, so it by no means will impact your application one way or another.
DougThomasROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:10:43 PM)
Ecuador: This is not likely, but I guess it would depend on why you would like to meet. If it is just to get some face time in hopes of improving your chances of admission, then No.
Anjani (Jan 21, 2010 12:10:48 PM)
Jon - Other than confirming the acceptance of waitlist on the Wolverine website, do I have to send any other acknowledgment to Ad-com at Ross?
Ron Chen (Jan 21, 2010 12:10:51 PM)
Doug: In the updates, may I report any new thoughts about understanding in Ross community and possible contribution to it?
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:10:59 PM)
BlueMaize - we need to receive the score by Feb. 15th in order for us to include it in the next review.
Geetesh (Jan 21, 2010 12:11:12 PM)
Soojin: I understand that for international candidates, the last decision date would be R2 only. Is it correct?
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:11:35 PM)
Geetesh - no, that isn't correct. We make decisions on international candidates up until the end of May.
Josh (Jan 21, 2010 12:11:44 PM)
Soojin: Does Michigan keep students on the waitlist up until the first day of classes in the fall? In other words, do you have a summer waitlist?
JonFullerROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:11:54 PM)
Shubha - changes in status will be announced at the Round 2 notification deadline in March. If there's no change, well, there's no change and we won't contact you.
Neha (Jan 21, 2010 12:12:06 PM)
Jon: Thank you for organizing the chat. Does Ross encourage waitlisted students to visit the school?
JonFullerROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:12:39 PM)
Anjani - No - confirming your acceptance on the Wolverine site is all that is required. Thank you for doing so!
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:12:44 PM)
Josh - yes we do. We will periodically check in with WL applicants over the summer to inquire whether they're still interested in being considered. We've made offers as late as the day before classes start.
Keely (Jan 21, 2010 12:12:53 PM)
Jon: If there is no possibility of a promotion at my current job, are the only significant updates you would like to hear related to additional classes/GMAT score and extra curricular activities? I know you don't want to hear from us unless it's significant, but we obviously would all like to express continued strong interest
DougThomasROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:12:59 PM)
Ron Chen: I would focus on new and significant information. I don't think you having a better understanding of Ross after you have been waitlisted necessarily qualifies.
MBA2012 (Jan 21, 2010 12:13:21 PM)
Soojin: You mentioned March 15th as our next potential "update" date. Can you share the milestone dates after that and when you expect potential waitlist movement based on prior year observations or other?
Sriram (Jan 21, 2010 12:13:34 PM)
Doug: If there are no 'significant' updates from the date of the interview until the next result, are such applicants disadvantaged against those who have been able to improve the profile or is the old application weighed in on its previous merit and does not 'reduce' my chance?
JonFullerROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:14:10 PM)
Neha - I responded to that question in a reply to Ecuador. We encourage applicants to visit, but it's really just for your benefit so that you can see firsthand what the school has to offer. A visit won't impact our admissions decision one way or another.
Jeremy K (Jan 21, 2010 12:14:19 PM)
Jon: How does being on the waitlist affect one's ability to get financial aid or scholarships if eventually admitted?
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:14:26 PM)
MBA2012: The next potential status change date would be with the R3 notifications on May 15. Again, we'll only communicate with an applicant whose status has changed. If there's no change, you won't hear from us.
DougThomasROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:14:55 PM)
Sriram: Good question. Some people will be admitted off the waitlist based on their original application and some will be admitted based on the support of some new information.
Linda Abraham (Jan 21, 2010 12:15:17 PM)
Soojin, I'm getting a lot of questions regarding timing. Could you outline a schedule of reviews and notifications?
BlueMaize (Jan 21, 2010 12:15:21 PM)
Thanks Doug. Ross FAQ for waitlist candidates says that you would not provide feedback. How do you suggest that I go about identifying my area of improvement and whether to take a GMAT again or not?
JonFullerROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:17:05 PM)
Keely: Perfectly understandable, and my response was mostly geared to dissuade basic "I really, really, really want to come and that's why I should be admitted" messages. A significant update related to work could also include an assignment that you solicited, or a process you improved, etc.
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:17:34 PM)
Sure, Linda. Timing: We review WL applicants with each subsequent decision round.R1 WLers will get reviewed w/the R2 pool. If still on the WL after that, we'll look at you again with the R3 pool. We may drop some people from the WL at each round as well; we see no sense in keeping people on the WL if there is little likelihood of there being space in the class. After the R3 review, we'll review on a rolling basis and make offers on an as-needed basis after we get replies from all of the folks who were admitted.
Neha (Jan 21, 2010 12:17:55 PM)
Soojin: Should the updates include only the developments after October 10th or could it also include relevant events from the past?
Linda Abraham (Jan 21, 2010 12:18:21 PM)
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:18:35 PM)
Neha - only new significant developments since your application was submitted. Anything that was relevant should have been included in your original application materials.
Ron Chen (Jan 21, 2010 12:18:59 PM)
Soojin: Should updates be submitted at least one week prior to the respective decision date, so that the admission committee may have time to evaluate updates and make a final decision?
DougThomasROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:19:01 PM)
BlueMaize: Yes that is correct. It would not be fair to our applicants under review to give waitlisted candidates feedback. You need to take a close look at your application and decide where you may have fallen short. Have an objective person take a look at it as well. The reality is that for some applicants, there is nothing they can do at this time to improve their candidacy.
JonFullerROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:19:23 PM)
Jeremy K - all students are reviewed equally for scholarship opportunities at the time of admission. As for financial aid (i.e. loans), there's nothing to stop you from completing the FAFSA form now to get the ball rolling on that process. Students repeatedly tell us that getting off the waitlist, even when it's very close to the beginning of the year, doesn't adversely affect their ability to get loans in a timely manner - just as long as you do some advance work.
Ron Chen (Jan 21, 2010 12:19:33 PM)
Doug: I missed the Ross event held on Oct 26th last year in Shanghai. Are there any other events like cafe-talk available in recent weeks?
Gaurav Verma@Atlanta (Jan 21, 2010 12:20:00 PM)
Jon, would visiting the campus again reflect well on one's interest in Ross?
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:20:19 PM)
Ron Chen - to guarantee that new information is considered, we'll need it by 2/15 for R2 consideration.
VeerPande (Jan 21, 2010 12:20:27 PM)
Soojin - If my GMAT is in the lower spectrum of my kind of applicant pool, are there any other alternative scores/grades comparative to the GMAT that ad-com will view to evaluate a waitlisted candidate?
DougThomasROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:20:28 PM)
Ron Chen: Unfortunately, not at this time. Most of our team is busy with the application process.
JonFullerROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:20:39 PM)
Gaurav visiting again wouldn't impact our impression one way or another.
PK (Jan 21, 2010 12:21:08 PM)
Jon: Historically, do candidates generally get admitted from the waitlist as a result of providing significant updates, or are there many candidates who simply got admitted without providing updates?
JonFullerROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:21:25 PM)
Good questions all.
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:21:30 PM)
VeerPande-it is unlikely that an applicant is WLed only for GMAT. Other factors likely contributed to the decision.
DougThomasROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:21:53 PM)
Rossy: Either option could help, but improving your GMAT score would probably have a bigger impact.
JonFullerROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:21:54 PM)
PK - we've definitely had many admission situations where both scenarios apply.
MBA2012 (Jan 21, 2010 12:21:55 PM)
Soojin: I have done a lot of review with friends, current Ross students, and alumni, and my weakness isn't really identifiable. All my stats are above average and I thought my interview went great! My conclusion is that perhaps there was a fit question for me. Care to elaborate on how I could address and if you could waitlist based just on fit?
Linda Abraham (Jan 21, 2010 12:22:12 PM)
Shameless plug: Accepted.com does evaluate applications.
JonFullerROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:22:21 PM)
Nice, Linda! :)
Linda Abraham (Jan 21, 2010 12:22:28 PM)
I couldn't resist.
Chinmay (Jan 21, 2010 12:22:34 PM)
Jon: I wasn't offered an in-person interview during application. Can I request for an in-person on-campus interview if I'm an international applicant? It will give me a good opportunity to visit the school which is something I wasn't able to do earlier because of personal reasons.
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:23:05 PM)
MBA2012: Unlikely that we would WL because of fit only. If an applicant isn't a good fit, we would've just denied. If your stats are "average" as you say, that's probably what made the difference between an "Admit" decision and "WL."
PK (Jan 21, 2010 12:23:07 PM)
Doug: Can you comment on Round 1 and Round 2 application volumes compared to prior years?
Josh (Jan 21, 2010 12:23:24 PM)
Soojin: Is it a good sign to get waitlisted by Ross?
Linda Abraham (Jan 21, 2010 12:23:35 PM)
It beats getting rejects!
MBA2012 (Jan 21, 2010 12:23:47 PM)
Thanks for all the helpful responses and honesty!
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:24:13 PM)
Josh - absolutely! We only WL applicants who are good potential candidates for Ross.
Gaurav Verma@Atlanta (Jan 21, 2010 12:24:22 PM)
Soojin, when you say "hear from us", do we have to login to the wolverineaccess website and check out status or will we get an email?
DougThomasROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:24:30 PM)
PK: They are actually right on par with recent years. Round 2 is historically a much larger volume than Round 1.
Anjani (Jan 21, 2010 12:24:48 PM)
Doug: Can I send updates on any significant initiatives taken in my community service?
JonFullerROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:24:50 PM)
Chinmay interviews are offered on an invitation-only basis. If you're offered an interview, that interaction isn't weighed any differently if it's done in Ann Arbor or if it's with an alum in your region. That said, if you visit us in Ann Arbor, you can attend one of our Visit in Person (VIP) events, and you'll have a chance to meet current students, and attend a class, etc.
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:24:58 PM)
Gaurav - you'll hear from us both ways.
Neha (Jan 21, 2010 12:25:09 PM)
Jon: Considering that all other factors are favorable, just the amount of work experience is less, what is the recommendation for such candidates?
Chiranjive (Jan 21, 2010 12:25:15 PM)
Soojin: Could Tauber denying admission be a reason for Ross giving a waitlist decision?
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:26:10 PM)
Chiranjive - no. Our decisions are independent of Tauber's decisions. if we say yes, Tauber could say no. But if we say no, then Tauber doesn't override the Admissions Committee.
Shubha (Jan 21, 2010 12:26:41 PM)
Soojin: Would reconsideration from waitlist be made solely on the basis of candidature re-evaluation or also on the yield rate? Am I at a disadvantage if the yield rate of people from my background is high?
DougThomasROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:26:41 PM)
Anjani: Absolutely. You can send updates via email to email@example.com. Via this email you may also request the admissions contact who is managing your application.
JonFullerROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:27:11 PM)
Neha - In evaluating applicants, we absolutely put a priority on the quality of the experience rather than just a quantifiable number. So my advice is to emphasize the quality of your experiences.
MBA2012 (Jan 21, 2010 12:27:14 PM)
Doug: I know you have mentioned providing significant updates which I understand. However, what if you feel there was information that you didn't provide in your original application that might help your chances?
Amitoj (Jan 21, 2010 12:27:42 PM)
Jon: I will be taking up a consulting assignment with a new employer in next few days. Will a recommendation from the new employer be counted as a "significant" update?
DougThomasROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:28:00 PM)
MBA2012: You can certainly provide this, but it does leave open the question of why it was not included in the first place.
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:29:02 PM)
Shubha - at this point, your candidacy is based on how you stack up against the rest of the R2 pool. Same thing in R3. In other words, yield among admitted students has no impact on a WLed applicant's chances of admission until AFTER our enrollment deadline of May 1. So until then, WLed applicants are viewed the same as applicants to a given round.
Javier_Figueroa (Jan 21, 2010 12:29:08 PM)
Doug: Will international applicants will be taken in consideration for R3 too?
Josh (Jan 21, 2010 12:29:11 PM)
Soojin: I'm a little confused as to one of your statements saying that some candidates will get off the waitlist based on their original application and others, new information. If Ross waitlisted us due to our original application, how can our same application get us into Ross at a later time? Isn't it a necessity to send updates to convince you that Ross is, and will remain to be, our number one choice and that we are the best fit for your school?
JonFullerROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:29:58 PM)
Amitoj - Congratulations on the new consulting job! In general, we don't put a lot of value on additional recommendations at this stage. Also, if it's a new employer, how well are they going to be able to speak about the quality of your performance, and the impact that you've made on the organization, etc. Depending on the scenario, the new assignment may be a more valuable update.
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:30:07 PM)
Josh - candidacy is based on what the applicant pool looks like. You may be more competitive relative to the applicant pool in subsequent rounds, even with your original application materials.
Janggyun (Jan 21, 2010 12:30:17 PM)
Soojin, I applied Ross School with Tauber Institute. If I get admitted through next round, will I be admitted to Tauber as well?
Geetesh (Jan 21, 2010 12:30:22 PM)
Jon: If an admitted candidate from India with finance background withdraws his application, then will an Indian, with a similar background, be selected from the waitlist?
DougThomasROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:30:45 PM)
Javier: Yes, we consider waitlisted candidates up until the beginning of July. After that we feel it will be too difficult for international students to obtain a visa in time for the start of classes.
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:30:49 PM)
Janggyun - Tauber's decisions are independent of ours.
Josh (Jan 21, 2010 12:31:00 PM)
Soojin: You had mentioned to us that you will contact us only if there is a change in our status. Will you call us, like you do all admit students, if you decide to admit us and send us an email to check our status if we are rejected?
JonFullerROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:32:02 PM)
Geetesh - we do put a priority on diversity, but we wouldn't make a decision like that simply based on the citizenship of the applicant. So no, there wouldn't necessarily be a correlation in who we would bring off the waitlist.
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:32:19 PM)
Josh - we do our best to call all admitted students. Not all admits get a call, some get emails. But all admits (and all other applicants) will be able to access their decisions online.
Gaurav Verma@Atlanta (Jan 21, 2010 12:32:19 PM)
Jon, does admissions like to hear from Ross Club leaders about a prospective student's fit with the Ross community or a particular Club's development?
Josh (Jan 21, 2010 12:32:28 PM)
Doug: If we take the GMAT again and don't score significantly higher, will your school still look at it favorably that we did try to improve our score rather than not trying at all? For some of us who have scored above a certain threshold, getting a significant jump in the GMAT (more than 30 points) can become very, very challenging.
Chinmay (Jan 21, 2010 12:32:39 PM)
Neha (Jan 21, 2010 12:32:49 PM)
Doug: If students would like to visit Ross, is there any last date that should be considered?
JonFullerROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:34:01 PM)
Gaurav, I wouldn't be opposed to it by any means, if the recommender is able to address a specific impact that you were able to make.
Anjani (Jan 21, 2010 12:34:14 PM)
Jon: I remember reading that Ross had a higher yield last year and hence wanted to reduce the intake this year - is this correct? If so, how does this affect the waitlisted applicants?
DougThomasROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:34:23 PM)
Josh: If you don't think you can score significantly higher on the GMAT (more than 30) points, than I don't think I would recommend retaking. If you do retake and don't score well, it will not affect your candidacy one way or another.
Chiranjive (Jan 21, 2010 12:34:31 PM)
Doug: Do additional work recommendation/others, beside current student or alum, add or influence the admissions decision?
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:34:42 PM)
Follow-up to Josh's earlier question about convincing us that Ross is an applicant's #1 choice - While that's nice to hear, we don't make decisions based on where an applicant ranks us. And we know that many applicants say that because that's what they think we want to hear. No need to keep reiterating your interest in Ross. How an applicant conducts themselves while they're on the waitlist also plays into our decision.
PK (Jan 21, 2010 12:35:05 PM)
Soojin: I noticed the waitlist spreadsheet on Google groups contains a large number of folks from one demographic. Did a lot of strong candidates this year get waitlisted as a result of their demographics?
DougThomasROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:35:25 PM)
Neha: I'm sorry, but I don't quite understand your question. If you have not yet visited, my suggestion would be to visit while school is in session so that you can have contact with our students including attending a class.
Geetesh (Jan 21, 2010 12:36:12 PM)
JonFullerROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:36:29 PM)
Anjani -- We did have a record yield last year, but that isn't really influencing our decision making process as to who is admitted vs. who is placed on the waitlist or denied. The success of our yield rate does impact how many individuals we admit from the waitlist.
Gaurav Verma@Atlanta (Jan 21, 2010 12:36:35 PM)
Jon, I started a community website using open source audio streaming technology in January 09 and through the year, the hits and bandwidth has increased phenomenally by Dec 09. I omitted mentioning this in the main application as I wanted to give other achievements higher priority, but now I feel I should have included it. I have a nice statistics graph for this. Can I include this update in my significant updates?
DougThomasROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:36:56 PM)
Chiranjive: No, not really. We have found that additional professional recommendations seldom offer new information. They just reiterate what we already knew from the recommendations already submitted.
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:37:01 PM)
PK: We waitlist applicants because we think they might be a good fit for Ross, but there are a few things in their applications that may not have been as compelling as others in the applicant pool.
Linda Abraham (Jan 21, 2010 12:37:06 PM)
All: What applicant behavior detracts from a waitlisted applicant's chances?
Ecuador (Jan 21, 2010 12:38:09 PM)
Soojin: Is there any difference if someone applied through the Consortium?
JonFullerROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:38:10 PM)
Gaurav -- Sure - if it fits in the bigger picture of your candidacy and goals. If it's just information for information's sake, that would be less valuable.
Chinmay (Jan 21, 2010 12:38:15 PM)
Jon: Is it true that there are an extra-ordinary number of people with a finance background applying this year, because of the financial crisis [people getting laid off from i-banks etc.]? If I have a finance background, would my chances be less, considering the need to maintain a professional background diversity?
DougThomasROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:38:34 PM)
Jeff: Based on how the admission decisions were posted this year, we were unable to include each applicant's admissions director. You can obtain this by emailing firstname.lastname@example.org and requesting it. Make sure to indicate in the email that you are on the waitlist.
Ron Chen (Jan 21, 2010 12:38:41 PM)
Doug: I've got a professional certification, but didn't mention it in original application because I was not asked for such information. May I report it as an update?
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:39:01 PM)
Good question, Linda. Repeated emails saying that Ross is an applicant's top choice are not helpful. We get many of those every year. Applicants should exercise good judgment about what to contact us for. The other thing that won't help in the process is insisting on meeting with an Admissions Committee member to plead one's case.
DougThomasROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:39:05 PM)
Ron Chen: Sure.
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:39:41 PM)
Ecuador - no, there is no difference in our admissions criteria whether someone applied through the Consortium or directly to us. We have one set of criteria for all applicants.
JonFullerROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:39:49 PM)
Chinmay, I wouldn't say that we've seen such a pattern. MBA programs like ours always get a significant number of finance-related applicants, but we've continued to receive applications with a broad spectrum of experiences.
Josh (Jan 21, 2010 12:40:11 PM)
Soojin: If our GMAT score matches those of the admitted students, can we assume that our GMAT score was not the issue or glaring weakness that put us on the waitlist and not the admit list?
BlueMaize (Jan 21, 2010 12:40:36 PM)
Jon: Can you elaborate how you grant admission to waitlisted candidates based on the yield? What do you look at apart from the candidate's updates and the improvements? Do try to replace with the same profile, country, or industry etc?
Harsh (Jan 21, 2010 12:40:52 PM)
Doug: Have their been large number of candidates waitlisted from the technology industry?
DougThomasROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:42:48 PM)
Harsh: That's difficult to say at this time, but it is a very common industry amongst our applicants.
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:42:50 PM)
Josh - we have a range and an average. While someone may be in the range, or even at our average, the score is viewed in conjunction with the rest of the application. So if you have the same score as another applicant, which is a certainty, we view that against the rest of your background and materials. Someone could have the same score as you, but more robust leadership experience, stronger recommendation letters, etc. A score is never viewed in a vacuum.
S_Gandhi (Jan 21, 2010 12:43:09 PM)
Doug - I am a waitlisted candidate and even though I am currently considered an international student, I won't need a student visa from University of Michigan. Does that mean I could be considered for admission even after July?
Amitoj (Jan 21, 2010 12:43:28 PM)
Soojin: I had a significant extra-curricular activity which I didn't mention in my original application. Will sending updates on that activity be considered as a "good" or a "bad" update?
JonFullerROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:43:50 PM)
BlueMaize, when we look at WL applicants, we somewhat go back to the fundamental question of will this person make a significant impact to the school. It's an individual decision, not necessarily based on the current overall headcount of profile, country, or industry, etc. That can be an influencing factor, but not the first line of decision.
Chiranjive (Jan 21, 2010 12:43:52 PM)
Ron Chen (Jan 21, 2010 12:43:55 PM)
Thanks a lot, Doug.
Josh (Jan 21, 2010 12:44:09 PM)
Jon: If we had a typo in our initial application (i.e. mislabeling a Grant value as $10,000 instead of $100,000) can we send this in the update or will the admissions committee find this as a reason to think less of the applicant for not properly proof-reading the first application?
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:44:24 PM)
Amitoj - sending updates on extra curricular activities is not recommended. It is not what we consider significant and you wouldn't have been waitlisted on the basis of fewer extra curricular activities alone.
DougThomasROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:44:30 PM)
S_Gandhi: That's possible. I would communicate that information to us via email.
Neha (Jan 21, 2010 12:44:57 PM)
Doug, I am sorry for not being clear. The notification for R2 seems to be March 15th . So do you recommend students to visit the school the latest by, say February 15th, or anytime before the R2 notification is good enough?
Chiranjive (Jan 21, 2010 12:44:58 PM)
Soojin: If yield rate is higher again this year, would you be planning to increase the number of students you take off the waitlist?
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:45:39 PM)
Chiranjive - it depends on how many admit offers we make in R2 and R3.
JonFullerROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:46:03 PM)
Josh, well, that falls into the judgment-call category. With an example like that, I'm less concerned with the value of the grant as much as would be with the fact that you were awarded a grant - period. That would be the significant part.
Ecuador (Jan 21, 2010 12:46:30 PM)
Soojin: Is it OK to send the results of online Math courses such as http://mbamath.com (if GMAT math is the problem)?
Harsh (Jan 21, 2010 12:46:35 PM)
Jon: Will adding other significant accomplishments from the past be considered as significant update?
DougThomasROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:46:53 PM)
Neha: Visiting the school will not necessarily help your chances for admission. I usually recommend this prior to applying because I believe it helps applicants put together a better application specific to our program. At this time, I would recommend visiting so that you are sure it is the best fit for you.
BlueMaize (Jan 21, 2010 12:46:58 PM)
Doug: I did email email@example.com asking for the contact of my associate director so that I can send updates. But I got a response saying that I need to send my updates to firstname.lastname@example.org. Is that right or will I get the contact of my associate director?
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:47:25 PM)
Ecuador- if your quant skills didn't come across well in your application, then yes, taking a quant course and sending us the grade in the course would be a useful update to send.
Josh (Jan 21, 2010 12:47:50 PM)
Soojin, I must say that I'm very relieved that you don't put emphasis on building a diverse class in terms of industry, demographic, etc. and truly look at a person's accomplishments and goals. Can we be rest assured that even if we are applying from an over-represented group, that our merits will be judged purely on their own standing?
JonFullerROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:48:00 PM)
Harsh, I put more value on progression over time and recent accomplishments.
Shri (Jan 21, 2010 12:48:08 PM)
Jon: For career changers , is there a possibility that he/she is waitlisted because her pre-MBA and post-MBA careers paths were totally different. I would think not - because one of the reasons a person wants to do an MBA is to transition/facilitate this career switch. Is my understanding right? Or can this be a factor for waitlisting a candidate?
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:48:52 PM)
Josh - we look at everything -- and I mean everything! I'm not sure what you think is an "over-represented" group, but we do strive for crafting a diverse class on every dimension you could think of!
Ecuador (Jan 21, 2010 12:48:58 PM)
Excellent Soojin, Thanks!
BlueMaize (Jan 21, 2010 12:49:04 PM)
Soojin: Now that you have moved to the new building are you planning to increase the class size this year? I know the class size increased last year but is there an increase this year also?
DougThomasROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:49:21 PM)
BlueMaize: I believe there must have been a misunderstanding. Please try this again. Sorry for any confusion.
PK (Jan 21, 2010 12:49:24 PM)
Doug: If we do have significant updates at our current employer in terms of responsibilities, should we also include a revised resume in the update email?
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:49:32 PM)
BlueMaize, we already increased the class size last year and plan to be in the same ballpark this year.
JonFullerROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:49:51 PM)
Shri: A significant number of MBA applicants are career switchers, so I doubt that would be the sole reason for waitlisting.
Rossy (Jan 21, 2010 12:49:53 PM)
Soojin: The application asked for examples of how you have reached out/connected to the Ross community. At the time, I had no information to put in that space. Since applying, I have reached out and gotten to know several members of the Ross community...is this worthy of an update?
DougThomasROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:50:16 PM)
PK: I don't think a revised resume is necessary. A brief email highlighting your new responsibilities is sufficient.
S_Gandhi (Jan 21, 2010 12:50:26 PM)
Thanks Doug. Should I be sending the visa related communication emails to AdCom now or should I wait till R3 results are declared?
PK (Jan 21, 2010 12:50:44 PM)
Jon: Do you require emailing the scanned transcripts for additional coursework? Or do we just mention the grade?
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:50:51 PM)
Rossy - no, connecting with the Ross community is not an update that is germane to our evaluation. But hopefully, the connection was helpful to you from a getting-to-know the school better perspective.
JonFullerROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:51:29 PM)
PK, we would like to see the transcript when it becomes available.
DougThomasROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:51:32 PM)
S_Gandhi: I guess that is up to you. I would probably wait until you know for sure that your citizenship status has changed.
Linda Abraham (Jan 21, 2010 12:51:34 PM)
A few thoughts from me (not Ross) based both on my experience and the responses in this chat: Judgment is a critical quality in handling the waitlist situation successfully. Whether trying to determine what is "significant" and worthy of update -- a topic that came up repeatedly today -- or what is too frequent in terms of updates, you need to use judgment. It will depend on what's going on in your life as well as some good not-so-common common sense. Don't write when you have nothing to say.
BlueMaize (Jan 21, 2010 12:51:36 PM)
Doug: Do candidates get waitlisted because their "Why MBA?" and "Why now?" is weak? If so, how do you suggest we strengthen that?
Linda Abraham (Jan 21, 2010 12:52:28 PM)
Soojin: If a waitlisted applicant stays on the waitlist and doesn’t get accepted this year, does he or she have a better chance when reapplying next year?
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:52:29 PM)
Thanks for the good advice, Linda. That's absolutely right.
Linda Abraham (Jan 21, 2010 12:52:38 PM)
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:53:38 PM)
Linda, being waitlisted in one year has no impact on our decision if an applicant reapplies the following year. While we do keep the application materials for a year and use that as part of the subsequent year's evaluation, it doesn't improve an applicant's chances of admission.
BlueMaize (Jan 21, 2010 12:54:33 PM)
Soojin: July 1st is the last date for international waitlists to hear from you. So will they still be considered for scholarships and financial aids or will that be too late?
Rossy (Jan 21, 2010 12:54:37 PM)
Soojin: It definitely was! Thank you for clarifying.
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:54:58 PM)
At the end of the summer, we will offer to give feedback to a small number of applicants who were waitlisted and ultimately not admitted, if they plan to reapply to Ross next year. And in the following year's evaluation, we will look for whether the applicant addressed the issues that were noted during the feedback or not.
Chiranjive (Jan 21, 2010 12:55:00 PM)
Doug: Would tackling another difficult project at work be considered a significant update?
Linda Abraham (Jan 21, 2010 12:55:10 PM)
Soojin, Jon and Doug: Any last minute words of advice?
DougThomasROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:56:05 PM)
BlueMaize: I don't believe this would be the only reason someone was waitlisted, but could be a concern. You could email that you felt you think you could have been clearer in your original application and clarify these areas.
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:56:12 PM)
BlueMaize- end of May/early June is the last date for international WL candidates to be offered admission. All waitlisted applicants are eligible for the same financial aid programs available to all admits, but waitlisted applicants who are admitted will not be considered for scholarship.
JonFullerROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:56:12 PM)
Take a deep breath, develop a waitlist strategy, and execute. Join our waitlist Google Group for assistance in that.
Linda Abraham (Jan 21, 2010 12:57:01 PM)
DougThomasROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:57:02 PM)
Chiranjive: Yes, this could be considered new and significant.
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:57:38 PM)
We know it's stressful. We know you're anxious. There's little you need to do at this time other than wait. I know it's hard!
JonFullerROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:57:47 PM)
Being waitlisted isn't the end of the world - you still have a chance at admission.
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:58:18 PM)
Absolutely! I can say for sure that many folks who are waitlisted will be admitted. Just don't know how many at this point.
Linda Abraham (Jan 21, 2010 12:58:19 PM)
We look forward to seeing you at future chats, and here is a list of the upcoming scheduled chats:
If you would like to automatically receive notices about these MBA admissions chats and other MBA admissions events, please subscribe to our MBA event list. Please check the website for additional details. Have a very good day! Good luck with your applications!
DougThomasROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:58:20 PM)
I wish all of you the best of luck, and appreciate your continued interest!
SoojinKwonKohROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:58:29 PM)
Yes, best of luck to all of you!
Chiranjive (Jan 21, 2010 12:58:32 PM)
Anjani (Jan 21, 2010 12:58:36 PM)
I'm really grateful that the Ross Adcom has taken the time to help waitlisted candidates. Kudos!
Keely (Jan 21, 2010 12:58:39 PM)
Thank you Soojin, Jon and Doug. Much appreciate your taking time out of R2 reviews!
Geetesh (Jan 21, 2010 12:58:47 PM)
Thanks Jon, Doug and Soojin and thanks Linda for organizing the chat
JonFullerROSS (Jan 21, 2010 12:58:50 PM)
Thanks for the questions everyone, and best of luck in the coming months.
Javier_Figueroa (Jan 21, 2010 12:58:51 PM)
Thank you very much adcoms and thanks to the waitlisted for your questions.
Ron Chen (Jan 21, 2010 12:58:58 PM)
Thanks to you all, have a great day and, Go Blue in sunny Ann Arbor!
Amitoj (Jan 21, 2010 12:58:59 PM)
Josh (Jan 21, 2010 12:58:59 PM)
Soojin: When you say "many" ...do you mean a significant number? Thanks So Much :) :)
Neha (Jan 21, 2010 12:59:00 PM)
Thank you Linda and the Admissions Team!!
Jeremy K (Jan 21, 2010 12:59:04 PM)
Thank you all for your time today.
Janggyun (Jan 21, 2010 12:59:09 PM)
Thank you all for your time and answers~
Chiranjive (Jan 21, 2010 12:59:10 PM)
Thanks to all of you for hosting this much wanted chat.
Gaurav Verma@Atlanta (Jan 21, 2010 12:59:10 PM)
Thanks Soojin, Jon and Doug. That was extremely helpful and a great morale booster!
Justin Portillo (Jan 21, 2010 12:59:11 PM)
Thanks very much!
BlueMaize (Jan 21, 2010 12:59:14 PM)
Thanks much Soojin, Doug, Jon and Linda!
Linda Abraham (Jan 21, 2010 12:59:22 PM)
Ecuador (Jan 21, 2010 12:59:26 PM)
Thanks All -- just want to say: Actions means more than words! I am excited to continue on this race for my dream program!
Gaurav Verma@Atlanta (Jan 21, 2010 12:59:32 PM)
If you would like to automatically receive notices about these MBA admissions chats and other MBA admissions events, please subscribe to our MBA event list. Please check the website for additional details.